The hagraven is a generic Forsworn oriented enemy, but their magic is just ridiculous to deal with, I'll get the shouts though, I don't want to enchant everything, or be using magic all over, but I did pick up that speed shout, unlocking that should make things a lot easier. The lack of mobility makes fighting magic users pretty horrific, Halldir's Cairn comes to mind, I literally could not kill him, exploding things and sustained magic attacks are almost unavoidable with how slow the character is.

With the right build you can insta-kill dungeon bosses when specced as rogue/assassin. Even on master.

Work your build, think, etc. etc.

Alchemy is the way to go. You can make potions to heal yourself or to resist elements. My healing potions heal 140 HP and my resist element potions make me resist 70%, and both those things have saved me a bunch when fighting dragons or other things that spam magic. Alchemy can make a bunch of other useful effects, like fortify archery. Mine doubles my Archery damage for 60 sec. Alchemy can be super useful for any type of fighter.

13, the Elven armor, the Red Guard or whatever sword and an elven dagger, and I go about things with a stealth focus and don't use outside elements, but now I'm being told I pretty much have to have these outside elements.


Kite? I can't kite, I'm level 13 right now and everything is faster than I am, how can you possibly kite things? I do have power shot though.

I haven't bothered with alchemy or crafting...I beat the main story last night with an assassin specced stealth/one handed/archery (level 39). The only enemy in the game I haven't been able to kill with a dual backstab (30X) on normal difficulty is Alduin, and that's probably because I didn't pop my nocturnal power to do it.

Seriously, dude , check my earlier post, like I said, I faced the same exact problem as you, with the same exact boss.

I don't have any problems being a roguey type. Hagravens aren't too bad, you just have to get in their face and not let them shoot fireballs at you. Learn Alchemy too and make lots of potions (or buy them). If I know i'm in for a tough fight, I'll start out with Fortify Health for faster health regen, and then I have my healing pots ready if I need them

I'm level 23 now, and I have my perks all over the place because I was a dumb noob for my first 10 levels, and didn't want to start over. But now I'm focusing on maxing Sneak so I can get shadow warrior, with both archery and 1-handed getting my secondary points. I only have 3 perk points left till sneak is totally full, but the skill is still around 25.

Dual dagger is a great way to backstab too as has been mentioned. Put one in each hand, sneak up behind someone and swing both hands at the same time. Just about anything will go down that way. For clearing a bunch of enemies, sneak + bow is really great. Get the zoom perk for your bow, it helps a lot. Plus the slow time perk too. If you aim for around the heart area , your arrow will actually shoot higher, so square in the chest usually turns out to be a head shot, for me anyway.

You don't even have to use shouts to be an effective stealth character. You'll be able to make it through the game just fine as a rogue. Besides warriors which are a little too powerful, rogues are arguably the most powerful class in the game if you play it right. Make sure to spec into those stealth damage bonuses and deal a huge amount of damage to kill your enemies outright or cripple them enough that the fight doesn't last long.

Umm, basically you need to plan a bit better.

Basically, think like this, at low-mid levels:

1. Stealth/backstab is great.

2. Fails against boss opponents who can survive the backstab easily, or who are hard to sneak up on.

3. Fails against multiple opponents.


So, you need special stuff for those situations. Against a Hagraven that's roasting you, use a Fire resist potion? Chug pots? Need to restealth -- invisibility pot? Use a scroll to summon a Storm Atronach as a distraction while you go in?

I mean, I was randomly dikeing around doing stuff on a regular casual character, when I hit the frost troll on the way to High Hrothgar, while a dragon spotted me at the same time. Oh[censored]. I basically hit some scrolls and chewed through a bunch of food and potions and survived.

Desperate times call for desperate measures -- keep some useful scrolls, potions, and poisons on hand for those special occasions.

You don't have to make them all yourself -- just keep the ones you find or buy them off merchants. No biggie.

I'm playing a stealthy type, and I find myself relying on archery and a crapton of potions and poisons. Usually I can get their health down by a fair chunk with the first sneak crit, maybe get a few more arrows out, and then if they charge me I fall back on a destruction spell. But I've never been more reliant on alchemy (various perks are also a must-have for me). Don't forget to upgrade your armour as much as you can as well. Enchanted armour or jewellery like something which boosts magika resistance can be a real help too.

Hargravens are beasts though as I'm still at a rather low level, and dragons put the fear of God in me. Last time I saw one swooping about I went and cowered in the middle of a hollow fallen tree trunk until it went away.

Rogues/Thieves are more of a City dweller type character. They wouldnt exactly be strong enough to take down a Dragon. The average Rogue isnt a super-hero,. They'd likely only stick to fighting common enemies like Bandits, lesser undead and Daedra etc, and would spend more time in cities than dungeons. Honestly, what Rogue would plough through a dungeon infested with things like Liches, Vampires etc on a regular basis. Its just not realistic.

Unless you're an immensely tough/experienced fighter or one of the most powerful mages, something like a Lich should beat the crap out of you.

For reference there is a certain power you can get that makes you completely rediculously overpowered. Namely...


Using that ability plus daggers you can 1 shot dragons or anything else in the game (even multiple opponents), at least on normal difficulty. Just kill one guy, stand, crouch, rinse, repeat.

What do you consider outside elements? If you're not going to use magic you have to use potions, at least for healing. Alchemy is in the Thief tree. It's not magic. Have you done the Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild quest lines yet? The DB particularly has some incredibly useful armor (gloves that x2 backstab making arrows x6 and dagger x30!) that is absolutely worth it as well as a decent dagger. If you don't want to enchant you don't have to but it helps, at least to make one dagger with Soul Trap to recharge the magic weapons you find. That's what I used enchantment for. If you're dual wielding just drop the sword. Daggers are silent. Swords aren't. And the dual wield power attack for daggers is sick.

Also, use sprint. That's how you kite. You don't get faster in this game I don't believe.

This rouge takes on two blood dragons at once without breaking a sweat. That's just using dual daggers and arrows and no stealth. Add stealth and you can one shot dragons in their den (except the ridiculous Elder and Ancient varities). There's no reason a rouge wouldn't be a top notch fighter.

I'm not saying a Rogue cant be a good fighter because they can, but they aren't the kind of class i'd consider a "super-hero". I just cant imagine a Rogue clearing out dungeons full of powerful undead and daedra every day of the week. They tend to be more cautious. Also since most Rogues tend to love gold, it would make more sense for them to avoid combat whenever possible and just sneak through hard dungeons to get the loot.

Stealth classes rely on killing enemies BEFORE they have a chance to attack you.

And in most cases, you're not even supposed to kill them - you're supposed to AVOID them completely.

If you find yourself facing a room of enemies at the same time, you're not doing it right.

Oh I know your pain. Dungeons are fine, but forced battles are just hellish. Like when I had to fight the dragon priest in labarynthian. It svcks, so I must keep lots of gold for health potions, that and keep soulgems for my bow charged and poison. Becuase if that first shot doset do enough damage im [censored].

I have no complaints with my Sneak/Archery/One Handed/Light Armour build. Yes, it's more challenging that going for a heavy/2h herp-derp build. It's also a LOT more fun.


Get back to me once you've cleaned out Dustman's Cairn with a stealth-based character, then we can have a discussion about how you should be able to avoid fights.

If your archery is leveled up and you don't destroy things, you're doing something wrong. My build is basically like yours as far as what I'm investing points in I consider myself a Ranger though. My primary focus is Archery but I am also putting points into one-handed and sneaking as those are useful, I wear light armor also. I can't really say about how effective you could be if you're focusing mainly on trying to use daggers as I focus on Bow combat and finish off with daggers if I have to. I have killed a couple dragons though using daggers only, though I wouldn't say dragons are the toughest of fights I've come across. I dunno, personally I like how my build is playing but it does force you to be a little more creative, you're going to want to invest in alchemy, in tough fights I burn up a handful of potions. Health potions, potions that increase bow damage, potions to increase health regen rate, etc. You can't just bull doze your way through everything, I don't think that makes the set up weak.

Lara Croft?
Prince of Persia?
Dudes from Assassin's Creed?
Batman?

They're all rogue-types. And they kick [censored].

You're mixing "thief" and "rogue". You're right if you were talking about a thief, like aladdin - they're definitely city dwellers and spelunkers.
But a rogue is a stealthy agile combat specialist.

Also, in TES lore, thieves/rogues are capable of a LOT of awesome stuff. Make sure when you talk about what you think certain archetypes "should" be capable of, you're speaking with TES in mind.

Well yeah, a Rogue isnt really a "pure" stealth class. They're basically a Warrior/Thief hybrid, its just that because TES games tend to have a heavily combat orientated MQ, I'd associate something like a Paladin, Spellsword, or Sorcerer to be more suited to a hero role than a Rogue.

Hang-on a second. Forgive me if this is an insulting question, but do you know there is a sprint key?