I think he's making a point about the thu'um and in general the Nords, that they've grown weak and dependent on the empire. When you ask him about learning to shout, he says that any Nord can learn if they have the disicipline and will- "Torygg had neither, and that was the point." He says Torygg was not a true high king of Skyrim, "his father maybe, but not Torygg."

Despite that, I don't get any sense that he hated him. He just saw him as a puppet of the empire, and in the end, a necessary sacrifice.

This is right. Ulfric did not hate Torygg, only what he represented, and felt that this was the onyl way to deal with it (which I disagree with, but whatever).


These things that you "heard" come from Sybille Stentor, one of Torygg's advisors. She says that if Ulfric had asked him to succeed from the Empire, Torygg MIGHT have done it. Maybe. At least, he might have brought it up with his court, right before his gaggle of Empire-appointed advisors shut down the idea and he changed his mind again. Torygg, like Elisif, was extreme susceptible to suggestion because he was young and inexperienced, a fact that the Empire took advantage of (that is why Elisif has about 3 times as many advisors as any other Jarl). Pretty much anything anyone told him sounded good to him. But if you think his advisors would have let him succeed from Skyrim, I think you're pretty naiive. They won't even let Elisif send soldiers to a freaking cave. They have her locked down tight. A pity, since she is very intelligent and kind and could be a good leader someday.

Ulfric admits that he could have killed Torygg without the Voice. For him, it was about creating an image of a powerful man who could literally shout away the evil forces of the world. Pretty dishonorable, in my opinion, to use the Voice, but he did.

Dueling another thu'um user however is completely honorable. And epic. I enjoy this.

Kind of like the end of "Scanners". Or maybe Dune. Duels are badass, against equals. But not against someone like Torryg. I can just picture it. It's kind of pathetic and sad.

Yeah, I agree with you. If Torygg had the ability to shout, it would have been completely fair in my opinion. But I'm sure the actual duel was just really pathetic. I'm guessing Ulfric laid waste to Torygg. It was probably embarrassing to watch and know that that was your king. Which again, was Ulfric's point.

He was of nordic background.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tiber_Septim

But it begs the question whether he really deserved to be there, as with few of the other npcs who can't find their way in to Hall of Valor. I wish we could go back there after the MQ to see whether they eventually made it there or whether they were stuck in between for eternity and never made it.

He climbed the 700 (NOT 7,000 TODD!!!) steps, convinced the old guys to teach him, and then left when he realized he was excepted to spend the rest of his life up there with a bunch of smelly geezers. His approximate response was something along the lines of "[censored] this [censored]! I'm gonna go be High King!" and then he skipped his way down the mountain, but he tripped and hit his head, which made him a charismatic racist easily manipulated by his worst enemies...

And that is the OFFICIAL CANON on why Ulfric can use the Voice.

Actually from the day he was born the Greybeards knew that Ulfric was badass incarnate, and thus summoned him to climb all of the steps so that they could hone his badass skills. But Ulfric was not content to keep his badassery on top of a lonely mountain, so left to show the world why he is so awesome.

I think he was a devoted student, and liked the "smelly geezers". I'm assuming he inherited the Jarl title? He probably was allowed in, just on privileges.. but then became a sincere student over time.

But I also see him as an ambitious do gooder, who thought he could fuse his political upbringing and the way of the voice, and change Skyrim. I bet he sat long nights on High Hrothgar, thinking where he might be able to improve on the greybeards lack of involvement.

My opinion though is that it's gone wrong. I don't think he's a villain or hero. Just a misguided man, with a lot of power. Power he hasn't used wisely. He also seems to be a man who relishes in extreme measures and shock effect, and creates enemies out of potential allies. Whether against the Forsworn, against his plans for Whiterun, against Torryg. Some people consider him a hero, because his cause is essentially just. It's just that the road to hell is paved with good intentions, etc..

"Any Nord with ambition and dedication can request training with the Graybeards at High Hrothgar." Ulfric Stormcloak on whether he shouted Torygg to death. "His inability to withstand my shout proved that he (High King Torygg) had neither. However, it was my sword piercing his heart took his life."

I'm paraphrasing, but that's pretty close to his answer.

Ulfric was taken to High Hrothgar to train to become a Graybeard as a child and when he heard about the war he left High Hrothgar and will not return. He was trained for about 15 years or so. There's a bit of information from him and from the Graybeards if you ask them about it.

Ulfric used the voice on the king and killed him with a sword...why did he use the voice on th High king when the king didnt know it? the king is suppose to be the protector of the country and Ulfric used the voiceto show that the king was weak and wasnt the Mightest.
Its alrdy been said that the previous king was very easily to presuade, Ulfric didnt duel him because he didnt liek the king, no he did it to kill 2 birds with oen stone, make a statement that the badass crazy nords are back and to get rid of a puppet king.
Ulfric didnt become Jarl until afte he escape prison that he was placed in after being betrayed by the empire to the thalmor. So after coiming hom eafter the war, he gets betrayed emotionally by the empire for getting [censored]ted on and then gets betrayed physiclly by the empire, both times was times the empire was being weak. 1st time form signing a peace treaty and abondaning the redguards and then banning the worship of the badass nord who became a god who is quite popular in Skyrim. 2nd time gets betrayed after taking back a city for the empire for a place of protected worship of talos, thalmor got wind and the empire ratted out and broke their promise/agreement to Ulfric and he was sent to prison.
Ulfric replaced jarls that were supporting the empire, those were the only ones. makes perfect sense he is reestablishing the country and u want all the jarls/leaders on same page to lessing the conflicts and creating process.

Was he actually summoned, though? I'm just wondering - at the beginning of the game, when the Greybeards holler down the mountain for the Dovahkiin to hustle his butt up to High Hrothgar for training, everyone is agog. Several characters even state that the Greybeards haven't summoned anyone in a hundred years (hundreds of years? I can't remember the wording), or else they mention that such a thing hasn't happened since Tiber Septim received the summons. So what was Ulfric's deal...?