Only problem is though, you won't be able to play the game further without accepting the new EULA. So unless you can keep it offline your screwed and that might not even be possible if it's not setup right and with Origin not being Spyware I find that hard to believe. Until I have 100% assurances that it does what it's suppose to normally do, I will never install it. Everyday it seems Consoles are slowly starting to be a better option over PC's, the baggage is just too high.

Okay, I turned off the WiFi and rebooted. Steam loaded up in offline mode from the get-go with no problems, and started Supreme Commander 2 and Skyrim with no issues. So I don't see any problems with operating the game via Steam even for those without internet access at home, so long as they can get their laptop to a friend's house or a Starbucks to download and verify the software first.

Now, as far as the question of broadband access goes, it appears that there are very few places in America where there is simply no broadband access, http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10454133-94.html

61.7% of employed people aged 3 and up in rural areas used broadband internet back in 2009. That number drops to % with unemployed people age 3 and up. Out of those reporting no use in broadband internet in rural areas, only 11.1% of those people listed lack of availability as the prime reason. So if I'm reading it right, only 11% of 38.3% of people in rural areas aren't using broadband internet because of not having any available. That's about 3.8% or so of people living in rural areas - so, what then, probably less than 2% of the people in the country aren't using broadband internet because it just isn't available at all? I'm not talking about people who decide they can't afford it; those people aren't buying computer games anyway. If they can't afford broadband they pretty much aren't a target market for online computer game retailers.

Looks like your right I just tried it as well and it worked. Maybe that was the offline mode bug fixed a month or so ago in one of their updates because before trying to open in offline mode without putting it in offline mode while online first never worked for me, I guess I never noticed it changed because I always did it the way that worked before.

That sounds possible. I never tinker much with Steam. I just start my games through it. I've never even played more than one game of Supreme Commander 2 against a human player over Steam.

What part of my checking it numerous times do you not understand? Not to mention EA has stated several times already that it doesn't monitor anything outside of the Origin folder. Do you need the president to assure you it isn't spyware?

Better yet, why not download it and run Process Monitor yourself. Hell, if it helps convince you I'll even stream my second screen running Origin/Process Monitor.

I'm not convinced either way, but let me ask you something. How is your proof any more valid than the proof in that post?

Take a closer look at those screenshots, they aren't from the same computer so they were most likely supplied by two different people. I'll wager the guy on the forum only reposted them to prove his point.

If someone sends me unwanted mail with an URL in it for some game, then nobody is forcing me too also. Still, it's spam.
The same goes here: in the All Games map there is suddenly this unwanted game to try for free. For me, that is pure simple spam.

Definition of spam by Spamhaus: "An electronic message is "spam" if (A) the recipient's personal identity and context are irrelevant because the message is equally applicable to many other potential recipients; AND ( the recipient has not verifiably granted deliberate, explicit, and still-revocable permission for it to be sent."

I only have Skyrim that is connected with Steam. I do not have anything else to do with it, I never asked for "free games" nor gave permission to give/send links to me. If it is mentioned in the Steam user notes that these kind of things will be send, then that is not valid because I have no choice: if I want to play Skyrim, I HAVE to install Steam so I HAVE to accept their "rules". Sure, there is the offline mode. But I have to go online with it for updates. And there is nowhere something in the Steam app where I can say "Do not send me totally irrelevant messages, I am not interested in Steam at all". So again, for me it has all the marks of spam.

Yes, I am one of many many people who don't want that Steam thing but are forced to use it. If Steam was just an app to validate software to counter software piracy, fine. I would have no problem at all with that.
But it's not: it's acting like it's some highly critical part of the game, it's acting like an app to promote Steam and games. I will not use the crack to run Skyrim without Steam ... but I can fully understand all those people who are using that crack.

Steamworks is a set of features game makers can add to their games. Features that depend on the Steam servers to work correctly. It's thinks like achievements, statistics, multiplayer games, voice chat, Steam Cloud saves etc...

AFAIK it doesn't have to be a Steamworks-exclusive game to use those features. Borderlands uses Securom DRM and Gamespy for multiplayer, but the Steam version has achievements and possibly Steam multiplayer.

Again unless it's 100% proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that it isn't Spyware or scans where it's suppose to scan it's not touching my computer. Not to mention that I don't believe in the concept of DRM in the 1st place so right there it's a no go for me.

By that definition it isn't spam. The recipients identity is relevant; these offers are for steam users only and you agreed to these offers when you installed steam and agreed to the steam subscriber agreement which you can revoke any time by uninstalling it.
I see what you mean that it can be considered spammy because you don't want them. Even so they are hardly intrusive and disappear after the time is up.

Section 4 of the SSA - Billing Payment and other Subsciptions:

So then you find it irritating that they try to prevent you from making playable copies. Awesome.

It's not. But, as Lord Crow said over in the Mass Effect thread...


At any rate, I'll be happy to test it across multiple PCs.

If the game requires those features of the server, can it run in Offline mode with disabled Internet?
If not, is that much different from a tighter (and veiled) DRM?

No, I don't believe that DRM should restrict me from playing the game, which is the only thing I want to do. I should be able to buy the game, install it to my computer and go, not have to deal with some 3rd party software that is only there for control, not to stop piracy. That's why I don't deal with Steam, Origin, or any of the other stuff, I don't want to be tied down by something that's suppose to prevent Piracy and I also want to own the product too.

Some games might be coded in a way to require Steam to be online. No Steamworks features that I remember of the top of my head cause such requirement though. Achievements can be fake won in offline fine, Steam Cloud cannot upload or download your saves and the like, but the game still launches in offline.

Mostly, the only thing exclusive Steamworks does is force you to keep Steam open to play the game.

My thread got locked so I'll repost here.

This forum is my only means of possible feedback to Bethesda.

I have loved every Bethesda game I've ever bought and I feel like you guys make a quality product.

I have hated steam since shortly after it's inception, as it has always been laggy, hogged up my system resources, and generally made it a PITA to play my games.

I really wish y'all had chosen some other means to secure Skyrim. As a decent example of why Steam is a poor option ... I just got home with my shiny new copy of Skyrim ... and I can't install it because steam is currently unavailable.

So much for my only night of the week to play ...

If this is a new trend in Bethsda's games, my new trend will be to stop buying Bethsda's games.

Someone said that all the TES games are on steam so it's no big deal ... Wrong. Skyrim is the first TES game that's REQUIRED steam for you to install and play. I just bought a game disc, and I can't install the damn game. That's a major problem in my book.

I'm against piracy, I feel you should support the work you love by giving up some cash, but this sort of thing makes me understand why people do it.

Welcome to the forums steamh8er, sadly no one above "Moderator" has yet to have a presence in these "unofficial Steam/DRM" threads. & you're most likely going to see some posts pretty much saying "Steam isn't so bad." (partial truth -true for some, just not everyone) & "Steam doesn't hog the resources" (we've talked about it so much we've stopped).

& I don't believe Arena or Daggerfall (TES 1 & 2) are on Steam as they are freely available elsewhere legally.

& I agree the issue isn't that Skyrim is available through Steam but that that it is only available through Steam even if you have the disc.

Actually this thread is for members to discuss Steam/DRM, unfortunately the devs aren't coming here to listen to our feedback. If you want them to hear your opinion you should try and contact Bethesda directly.

SKYRIM started acting messed up (again!) last night in the middle of playing it. Sometimes quitting to desktop and restarting fixes it, but it didn't do it this time. So the only other fix that has ever worked has been to re-install.

So I uninstalled it, but when I tried to re-install, I keep getting the error message: "No server available for this content. Try again in a few minutes." It's been saying that for 14 hours now!

Steam has no telephone support you can call. You have to do everything online and just wait for them to get back to you. You can't even get a human on the phone at Valve corporate headquarters.

Not only that, you have to have three different, separate registrations--one for Steam, one for Steam support and one for Steam forums!

If there is a downed server or some kind of problem, can they not post something on the Steam site so we know what is going on? Anyone else having this problem?

Why can't I just buy a retail version of a game and just run it completely from my hard drive without having to deal with all of this buggy online registration?!?! Were they really losing THAT MUCH MONEY by just using CD keys?

But that's the whole problem: I HAD to agree because otherwise I can not play Skyrim. And there is no way to opt out of these promotions.
And yes, I know: it's just for a short while and I can ignore it. But that's not the point. The point is that in fact Steam can do what ever it wants ("free software" promotion for example) because they know we HAVE to accept their terms if we want to play Skyrim. And sure, I can uninstall but then I can not play Skyrim anymore.
Sure, Microsoft does the same with their "Games for Windows LIVE" but it's so much less intrusive then Steam. I can make a offline name/account and choose not to connect with Live at all. Sure, there is a Live shell running when playing a Windows Live game. But it's not forcing anything upon me.
Steam not, it's just "Hey, we don't care! Here we are and we will be in your face whether you want it or not. And no, you can not opt out and there is nothing you can do about it except by removing Steam. But then you can not play the game anymore so we are sure our software is used!". That is not software anymore, that is forceware
One thing for sure: I will never buy a game again which is connected with Steam.

Ya, I think Skyrim was my last Steam purchase ever.

oO If you suspect some corruption in the Skyrim install, just ask Steam to "Validate cache files" on the game and it'll fix that. No need to reinstall from scratch!

Well, atleast valve games and blizzard games has less bugs even in beta stage than bethesda games on the release.

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/paradox-ceo-calls-drm-a-waste-of-money/

I'll let the article speak for itself, DRM is a waste of time and money too.