Unofficial SteamDRM Discussion #28

Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:12 am

Due to threads about Steam/DRM in Bethesda games being scattered in many game sections across the forum which makes it very difficult to moderate and the number of problems in each one, we have decided to have one thread for the discussion for everyone to discuss various forms of DRM/Steam in one place.

At the present we have no information about what DRM future games being published by Bethesda will have. There has been no formal announcement about it so this thread is merely for expressing your thoughts on various possibilities and expressing your thoughts about Steam and/or other DRM options which may be used.

The following rules will apply to this thread as well as all forum rules already in place.

1. No flaming, attacking or demeaning one another for their opinion about Steam/DRM (pro or con)
2. Any encouragement of piracy will result in a warning and temporary suspension of your account. Admission of piracy will result in a ban. This includes circumventing DRM of any kind.
3. Repeated posts by the same member to say the same thing can be considered spam and result in a warning against your account.


Rage has been confirmed to use Steamworks.
For RAGE, we’ll be using Steamworks for activation. You’ll simply need to be online once (per PC you’re using) to activate the game. Once the game is activated via Steamworks, you can take Steam into offline mode.
Skyrim has been confirmed to use Steamworks.
I can confirm that Skyrim will be using Steamworks. We'll have more details soon.
Dishonored has been confirmed to use Steamworks.
https://twitter.com/#%21/dishonored/status/200938333340319744: "To confirm, Dishonored on PC utilizes Steamworks."

Steam installation link: http://store.steampowered.com/about/

One of the frequent complaints about Steam is that it can't be played offline. We are providing a link for instructions to do so. If it will not work for you, please contact Steam to assist with the issue.

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3160-AGCB-2555

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1224956-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/page__view__findpost__p__18502385

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1712878

https://support.steampowered.com/register.php

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=17

What is Steam and SteamWorks?
Steam is a Digital Distribution (DD) and Digital Rights Management (DRM) platform used to distribute, update and play games online. Its main purpose is to allow players to buy games online and download them directly to their PCs with the Steam client, but it's also used by games distributed on physical media, such as DVD discs. Games that use Steamworks, which includes Steam-activated physical DVD discs, are activated online using the Steam client, and can't be launched without the Steam client running alongside the game. Thus the Steam client is required for both physical DVD and digital installations; it will be installed automatically for DVD installations from the disc, and there is no difference in the resulting install whether Skyrim is purchased online through Steam or on physical DVD. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_%28software%29 for more information.

Do I need Steam to run Skyrim on PC?
Yes. Skyrim is strictly tied to Steam for both physical retail DVD discs and online digital-only purchases. To play Skyrim, you launch the Steam client and then launch Skyrim from the Steam library, leaving the Steam client running in the background. Directly launching the Skyrim executable found in the Steam folder will also launch the Steam client, as Steam is hooked into the Skyrim executable.

Can I just run Skyrim without Steam running in the background?
No. The Steam client must be running to play Skyrim, and discussion on circumventing Steam by running Skyrim by any other means will not be allowed within these forums.

Do I need to be connected to the internet to activate Skyrim?
Yes. There is no such thing as offline activation.

Do I need to be connected to the internet to play Skyrim?
No. Steam is able to run in offline mode, meaning that you need to get online only once to activate Skyrim and install any required updates/patches, and don't need to be connected to the internet to play it. See https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3160-AGCB-2555 for the official guide, and the last entry in this FAQ for more detailed instructions on how to set the Steam client to offline mode so that it can stay offline for a long time. The Steam client is often updated, and the offline mode is known to be still a little buggy nowadays, hence it is advisable follow the latter instructions to set the client in permanent offline mode once you have activated Skyrim if you need extended offline time, and regardless of any further Steam client updates.

I have preordered my physical DVD copy of Skyrim; how am I supposed to install it? Do I need to install the Steam client first?
No. What you're actually installing when you completely install Skyrim from the DVD is the Steam client itself (as long as you haven't installed Steam in your system yet), which will then automatically copy the required game files from the DVD to your hard drive. You'll be asked to enter your Steam account name and password to log onto Steam authentication servers, then setup will start. If you don't have a Steam account you'll be asked to register one before installing Skyrim. Note that some of the files may be pulled from the internet through the Steam client to complete the installation, rather than all being on the DVD.

I want to order the Collector's Edition of Skyrim, but I don't have an optical/DVD drive. Will I still be able to install it when it arrives?
Yes, as long as you have a broadband internet connection. You can activate the DVD key of any SteamWorks game, including Skyrim, in your Steam client and download and install it over the internet without ever needing the DVD at all.

I have purchased a copy of Skyrim through Direct2Drive, GamersGate or some other digital download portal, not a physical DVD version. Won't that be different from the Steam version? Will they be incompatible for modding?
No. There will be no difference nor incompatibility. Skyrim is exclusively on the Steam platform. These sites are selling Steam activation codes for Skyrim, similar to the SteamWorks DVD key. When you buy a code, you will activate it in your Steam client, which will then download and install Skyrim, just as if it was bought through Steam. So, there will be no difference from a version bought directly through Steam itself.

Where am I supposed to install Skyrim?
Any Steam game is always installed into the main Steam folder without prompting for install location. However, you may choose where to install the Steam client itself, which will determine the install location.

What if an update/patch comes out? May I just download the patch and install it, with the Steam client still set in offline mode?
No. There will be no manual updates or patches available for download anywhere; the only way to update Skyrim is to get online and let the Steam client download the updates for you. Then you will able to get back offline and play Skyrim as usual.

I'm on a slow/dial-up internet connection. Can I still activate Skyrim when I install from physical DVD disc? Will I be able to download required updates/patches?
Possibly. You will be able to activate Skyrim on a slow or dial-up connection. Steam activation data files are usually in the order of a few megabytes, so should only take a few minutes to download. However, at activation time it is required to install any required updates/patches.

Will I be able to play Skyrim as soon as it releases?
Yes. There will be more details on preloading Skyrim on Steam closer to release.

I have a question or concern about Steam, or DRM in general, that's not answered here.
Then you're encouraged to refer to the Unofficial Steam/DRM Discussion found in the http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/forum/18-community-discussion/ forum or visit the http://store.steampowered.com/forums/.

Thanks to dAB for helping put together this FAQ

Please note the following forum rule prior to posting:
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/724862-forum-rules-and-general-information/
10. P2P Content/Bittorrents/Cracks/Criminal discussion is not permitted within the forums.

Discussing or linking to P2P content within this forum is prohibited. Given the nature of these resources and their use with piracy, under no circumstances can they be linked to within our forums. Violations of these rules will result in a warning or account suspension.

Bittorrent links and discussion are prohibited within our forums, with exception to use of bittorrent links relating to modded content (from clean torrents). Violations relating to bittorrent content will result in a warning/suspension. Similarly, we do not allow discussion methods of circumventing the Steam check or of Cracks that violate the terms of a game's EULA. Open admission to pirating copyrighted materials will result in an account ban.

Discussion of emulators/ emulation is also prohibited on this forum.

Similarly, posts admitting to drug use, violence, or other illegal activities are not tolerated within the forums. This includes indicating knowledge of or being witness to unreported illegal activities. Such knowledge should be reported to the authorities not posted on a forum.
For the purpose of this forum, EULAs are legally binding. Discussion of breaking it, avoiding it or cracking the game will result in a warning or ban of your account.


http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1241932-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1242900-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1243801-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1245427-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1246658-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1248407-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1249436-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1251957-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1253988-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1258551-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1286613-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1331715-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion-26/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1359009-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion-27/
User avatar
Big mike
 
Posts: 3423
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:38 pm

Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:08 am

Never had a problem in my life with DRM. If it stops pirates I say pile it on. Every device I own is connected to the internet 24/7 so I've never had a problem having to be connected to play. If a problem would arise I'd simply find something else to do until it was fixed.
User avatar
Juan Cerda
 
Posts: 3426
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:49 pm

Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:02 am

Never had a problem in my life with DRM. If it stops pirates I say pile it on. Every device I own is connected to the internet 24/7 so I've never had a problem having to be connected to play. If a problem would arise I'd simply find something else to do until it was fixed.
The problem is that it doesn't stop pirates.
User avatar
Queen of Spades
 
Posts: 3383
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:06 pm

Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:23 am

Never had a problem in my life with DRM. If it stops pirates I say pile it on. Every device I own is connected to the internet 24/7 so I've never had a problem having to be connected to play. If a problem would arise I'd simply find something else to do until it was fixed.
let's not forget not everyone has 24/7 internet, high-speed access or even home access, & yes I'm talking gamers here
User avatar
Claire
 
Posts: 3329
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:01 pm

Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:30 am

let's not forget not everyone has 24/7 internet, high-speed access or even home access, & yes I'm talking gamers here
But how will we know if they can't even get on the forums? :ohmy:

Well also, the number is so small for those that have don't have internet and are gamers...
User avatar
teeny
 
Posts: 3423
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:51 am

Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:30 am

Never had a problem in my life with DRM. If it stops pirates I say pile it on.
The problem is that it doesn't stop pirates.
Most DRM discommodes the honest purchaser/player much more than the pirate.
User avatar
Sophie Miller
 
Posts: 3300
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:35 am

Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:45 am

But how will we know if they can't even get on the forums? :ohmy:

by having a friend or a family member mention it on their behalf or some other means (i'm sure)
User avatar
Quick Draw III
 
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:27 am

Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:55 am

Most DRM discommodes the honest purchaser/player much more than the pirate.

How though? If you meet the minimum requirements of the game (to include an internet connection) there should be no reason the DRM gets in your way.
User avatar
Natalie J Webster
 
Posts: 3488
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:35 pm

Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:29 am

How though? If you meet the minimum requirements of the game (to include an internet connection) there should be no reason the DRM gets in your way.
And if you don't have an internet connection then you're screwed, even if you bought the game legally. Sounds like more of an inconvenience than a pirate who can just crack the game and play whether he has an internet connection or not.
User avatar
Tasha Clifford
 
Posts: 3295
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:08 am

Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:12 am

How though? If you meet the minimum requirements of the game (to include an internet connection) there should be no reason the DRM gets in your way.
If it does nothing to stop piracy, why should I have to jump through hoops to play something I bought? I don't want to have to register with some site/service to play a game. I just want to buy a game, put it in the cup holder, and play the damned thing.
User avatar
Kate Schofield
 
Posts: 3556
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:58 am

Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:49 am

If it does nothing to stop piracy, why should I have to jump through hoops to play something I bought? I don't want to have to register with some site/service to play a game. I just want to buy a game, put it in the cup holder, and play the damned thing.

Because it makes the developers / publishers feel happy, and they make the rules. You'll either live by them or fall behind. They won't really care. You can't beat em, join em. As for the question of not having an internet connection? Well it's likely listed as a requirement to play the game, so you should know beforehand you can't play a game like Diablo III without a constant internet connection. They gave plenty of notice, so you could either comply or not play.
User avatar
Holli Dillon
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:54 am

Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:25 am

...and that is the reason I have stayed away from certain games.
User avatar
Darren
 
Posts: 3354
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:33 pm

Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:52 am

Because it makes the developers / publishers feel happy, and they make the rules. You'll either live by them or fall behind. They won't really care. You can't beat em, join em. As for the question of not having an internet connection? Well it's likely listed as a requirement to play the game, so you should know beforehand you can't play a game like Diablo III without a constant internet connection. They gave plenty of notice, so you could either comply or not play.

let's also not forget not all publishers are as forthcoming on requirements as Bethesda or Blizzard (that's how I got my one Steamed game)
User avatar
Stat Wrecker
 
Posts: 3511
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:14 am

Post » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:24 pm

Because it makes the developers / publishers feel happy, and they make the rules. You'll either live by them or fall behind. They won't really care. You can't beat em, join em. As for the question of not having an internet connection? Well it's likely listed as a requirement to play the game, so you should know beforehand you can't play a game like Diablo III without a constant internet connection. They gave plenty of notice, so you could either comply or not play.
A requirement for essential gameplay features? Fine.

A requirement for preventing piracy and failing? People have a right to complain.
User avatar
Michelle Serenity Boss
 
Posts: 3341
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:49 am

Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:57 am

Because it makes the developers / publishers feel happy..
I'm not here to make them happy. They're supposed to make me, the consumer, happy.
User avatar
JR Cash
 
Posts: 3441
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:59 pm

Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:25 am

A requirement for essential gameplay features? Fine.

A requirement for preventing piracy and failing? People have a right to complain.

They have the right to make you be online to prevent piracy too, so....
User avatar
brandon frier
 
Posts: 3422
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:47 pm

Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:25 am

They have the right to make you be online to prevent piracy too, so....

only if you give them them that power over you by buying/getting those games

Are you totally missing the point that the requirement is only an inconvenience to the people who buy the game? Those happen to be the people the company should care about.

Whether or not it affects you personally, it does affect other people.

well said Narmy.
User avatar
Love iz not
 
Posts: 3377
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:55 pm

Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:50 am

They have the right to make you be online to prevent piracy too, so....
Are you totally missing the point that the requirement is only an inconvenience to the people who buy the game? Those happen to be the people the company should care about.

Whether or not it affects you personally, it does affect other people.
User avatar
Frank Firefly
 
Posts: 3429
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:34 am

Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:06 am

Because it makes the developers / publishers feel happy, and they make the rules. You'll either live by them or fall behind. They won't really care. You can't beat em, join em. As for the question of not having an internet connection? Well it's likely listed as a requirement to play the game, so you should know beforehand you can't play a game like Diablo III without a constant internet connection. They gave plenty of notice, so you could either comply or not play.
While you can either comply or not play, it's not like these are equally desirable options. If you really want a game, your options turn into "miss out on something you looked forward to" or "act against your own standards and support something you disagree with for the sake of convenience." Neither of those are ideal. The problem with whether you beat'em or join'em is compounded by the fact that you might be a minority; you might personally do very well taking a stand against a certain form of DRM, but it's other buyers you don't control who nullify your efforts. It IS something that can be resisted, however. The only reason DRM exists is money, so not shelling out your money in response to DRM isn't fruitless opposition.
User avatar
Jesus Duran
 
Posts: 3444
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:16 am

Post » Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:37 pm

Steam is great, although, I prefer not to use DRM whenever I can. Say, if a game is available on GOG, but I can get it off steam too, I will probably get it from GOG just so I can have the DRM removed, otherwise, retail discs and steam would be my second choice
User avatar
Facebook me
 
Posts: 3442
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:05 am

Post » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:24 pm

I go ahead and buy games that have drm, because I really, really want these particular games. I don't like the direction drm is taking though. When I first started buying games, we owned them in the same sense that we own the books we buy. There was copyright, of course, and we had to abide by that, but we owned the games and could play them whenever we wanted, give them away, make copies for our own use, sell them second hand. The minimal drm that was on them never ran out, if the company that made it went under, our game was still playable. Now, according the Eula, apparently they are doing us a favor by taking our money and allowing us to play the game--but we don't own it, can't sell it second hand, and they can take it back any old time they want. We apparently get no rights whatsoever for our money. In the meantime, we are seeing reports of pirates leaking the games, frequently the day of release or before. So the excuse of "it stops pirates" is a complete fiction. That said, Steam isn't as bad as some drm's I have dealt with--but I think game developers would be doing themselves a favor and creating goodwill by getting rid of drm entirely. As it is, they are punishing us, the ones who actually buy their games, while the pirates play for free. Do I condone the pirates?--god no. They are thieves. However, I really, really resent being punished for what the pirates do when I purchase my games--oh excuse me, not my games really, are they?
User avatar
Rudi Carter
 
Posts: 3365
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:09 pm

Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:35 am

I'm not here to make them happy. They're supposed to make me, the consumer, happy.

This. So. Much.

I love how there's this belief that internet access is perfect for everyone in the world, no bandwidth caps, no faulty service, no dropouts, full coverage. I remember seeing a week or two ago someone whining because they had a 250gb usage allowance. :lmao: Try having a 10, 20 or 40gb cap per month... try having a sat connection or dialup.

As it stands the cracked versions of games without drm are giving the pirates a better end product while the law abiding customers are getting shafted.

Because it makes the developers / publishers feel happy, and they make the rules. You'll either live by them or fall behind.

It's great if it works for you. Crapping on everyone though... puzzling consumer relations strategy...

If the customers showed some backbone and told the producers to stick their products when they're tied to suplerflouous drm clients then we'd see how long restrictive drm lasted. It's a buyers market after all. Odd how so many have forgotten this. :dry:
User avatar
~Sylvia~
 
Posts: 3474
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:19 am


Return to Othor Games