I remember when i first got to high level to run Black rock dephs and later on to run black rock mountain, and later on do the DM(dire maul)

I rememmber the Days when pve was so fun! so fun you had butterflys in your stomach.
It was so frightning and self discovering but still fun!

Mechanics, wow this was done so well back then Everything was new and it was kind of hard you did the dungeon as 10 even!


Problem with todays mmo:s? we have become better,smarter and we know the generic mechancis.

plese ESO by all means throw somthing 10 times harder at us and new.

This is not a threat or somthing to scare eso crew this is something other mmo:s have done in the future when they done mmo:s after wow trying to dethrone it.


Problem is you need to make pve hard you cant do a boss with 3 normal attackmoves and 1 mechanic.

that will be a walk in the park, you need maybe 5 phases with 3-4 new mechancis every phase.

that might even include you running up stairs kiting, clicking on levler in sync with Another in the Group.

run behind a wall.



You guys that played vanilla, if you did you sure will remember the feeling when you did mc,brd,brm,dm,onyxia for the first time! those just check the mechancis.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpSPHPXSl2g check the fight.

Onyxia just had these mechanics.

tailswipe(throws you backward if unlucky you got knocked into the eggroom and eggs hatched)
agro reduction on the tank(a specific hit to reduce agro on the tank)
Welps running into room when she lifted, you had to Place yourself perfectly in the room if you stayed in wrong Place you got oneshoted by her fire Breathe.
fearing everyone in the room(feared into cleave as meleedps was gg)
also tank had to stance dance into fury(taking more % dmg by onyxia) to not get feared so onyxia breathed or cleaved the raid




yeah and she Breathe fire on tank and cleaved and in phase 3 when she landed again lava came out of the floor at the outsides of the plates.


Thats almost no mechanics but it was hard back then nowdays there is basicly same amount of mechancis on bosses, we have become better, we have learned.

New players will learn by us, they will learn by time i just hope you wont do the mistake like they done in the newer mmo:s or in new wow expantions that made players quit wow.

that is making the pve easy! after one week players hit max level, go to the dungeons wipes maybe 2 times a dungeon for gear up for the raid some Days after, or even worse you go straight into the raids(tier 1)

And wipe 1-3 times.


if its done like this,the game will take a hit trust me a hard hit on playerbase, becuse they will rush thru the content and it wont feel rewarding doing an raid becuse its a walk in the park for anyone even the worst player out there.


Players want bragging rights,challange,something new to use their brain to overcome their challanges.

Do this and trust me on this one if not the playerbase gonna take a hard hit.

this is not to fraighten anyone or the devs, this is becuse i want this game to suceed and be the new game me and a lot others can play from years from now.


ive played mmo:s since age of 15 im 26 now ive played games competetive at high level qualified ESWC,WCG and challanged teams like SK,NiP,EYE,team9 in counter-strike with scores like 12 - 16.


Im not taking some story out the bag, there is evidence of this that players want a challange all you need to do is go to forums in wow and youtube check raid clips of vanilla/tbc and check the comments of players.


Not conviced?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeMzDEK7Iwo Razorgore the untamed fight one of the best fights ever crafted in pve history feel sorry for the guys who never experienced this one.
Its not my job to lay down every evidence i dont get payed to make the game, im just doing a small favor here and its up to you if you want to take it up or not.


Best regards

Sorry for awful Spelling i got dyslexia ive tried my best.

WoW Dungeons were decent. But from the sounds of it, you never played an MMO with Public Dungeons. Instanced Dungeons are ok, but if you want enjoyment, hours of something to do, meeting new people, making new friends, Public Dungeons is where it is at. And I'm SO glad ESO is bringing back the Public Dungeons.

I would agree with you if they were not zergfests.

To each their own but that doesn't look like fun to me. 10 minutes of whacking at a single "bullet sponge" monster seems awfully tedious. And that interface! Gah! It's like looking at Excel, not a video game.

You mean excel is not a game? Then why is it so fun!

Even so I want to keep my fun with spreadsheets in Excel and not Elder Scrolls.

What do you mean that you want a raidboss to die in 10 seconds? raid bosses is about not making mistakes and working around the mechanics.

wow did it at vanilla awosme thats why it was succesful, however everyone have become better at games and keeping same things in game not making it harder or new mechanics makes it teddius as you say.


I can tell you right now that it was social as hell in Guilds, meeting new ppl in dungons you will, it should be a choice of yours if you wanna do it with Guild you should be able to do it, if you wanna do it with random players you should be able to that

However if you wipe more in public Groups its your own fault, not the games fault that its hard, its often that some in the random Group is inexperience doing somthing wrong and he will learn in due time.

I prefer with Guild or players ive learned to know and play a lot with

That guild was terrible. Mage topping and that warrior with a hand of rag not touching top 5 is just sad.

Forging past that, most of the "difficulty" with Vanilla WoW came from horrible itemization and even poorer class designs, not to mention horrible mechanics themselves. Thing like only have 8 debuff slots for a 40 man raid, spirit on EVERYTHING, shaman's with an effective tanking tree, I can go on forever. WoW did a lot of things right, it also did a lot of things very very wrong.

I don't like pve, I think killing people is way funnier than killing mushrooms, but that's just my opnion, pve for me is just to get items and get out of there as soon as possible.

Yepp that Guild is terrible thats what everyone was back then but the Point im making is Everything was new so it was "hard" everyone was plain and simple terrible.

not until around bwl clear ppl starting to get min/max theorycrafting and understanding how mechanics worked.

in naxx eveyrone knew the mechanics but the gearcheck and numbers was high as [censored]

what i am saying is making bosses harder the bosses today have not become hard enuff in mmo:s
they are still holding the hand with the players in mmo:s with the imagination we cannot learn after playing the game for a while and wiping for a while or read guides.


wich is wrong thats why they should make fights a lot harder

Sorry, peeve of mine: consolidate your paragraphing please.

As for what your topic is about, I think that the synergy system they've developed will play quite nicely with bosses, we know for some interviews that ZOS prefer to have multiple mobs instead of that massive dude in the middle of a room throwing his brick hammer about. I think we could possibly expect boss fights as a boss event, to elaborate imagine you've just kill a bunch of bandit in big cave and then in the next room you have a mead hall where you're fighting the spartan warriors from 300 and they're doing synergy mechanics like bundling on top of each other creating a shell of shields with pikes sticking out; It's a TESO PvP-style PvE encounters. That's not to say that there won't be fights with massive creatures such as the bone colossus or the Titans from Cold Harbour but I think they're going to be less common.

The question for me is: if every mob in the game can benefit from it's own synergy abilities from it's allies, how are they going to distinguish the boss mobs from the wolf packs?
Elder Scrolls titles are not well known for having epic boss battles. Skyrim: Potema: ghost mob with a skull, using a one handed sword, Alduin: generic dragon battle, Ulfric Stormcloak and General Tullius: mediocre fights save for Ulfric using Unrelenting force every now and then. Oblivion: Mankar Cameron: wizard with his children backing him up, Mathiue Bellamont: danced with a dagger, got a dagger in the face.
You can argue that that is just fine and it's unrealistic to have phases on just normal mortals and you'd be right on the majority of times. Boss encounters in TES titles have always been more of a symbolic gesture to that of a physical change where you're fighting someone 5 times harder than anyone else, but will that be enough for an MMO game?

and on the note about wow did much right and many error:s is right on spot aswell, but how come many played it? becuse it was new! ppl didnt know how mechancis or how to work around the game, the pve was new to everyone.

You speak as if MMO were born with WOW lol, ever heard of the mother of all 3d mmo's called EQ, did you know that game had dungeons?

Yes, open ones that were solo'd by op necros and zerged by many of the rest. Pug content is not what we seek.

i played everquest aswell they stole from other games i know! wow wasnt first but doing good challenging mechancis and good ones wow was first you cant argue against that.

However if you keep old mechancis and after 15 bosses it starts to feel in expansion that you are at boss A again just that he has 1 other mechanic

thats the problem with wow no new mechancis just copy paste and diffrent numbers.