Vault-Tec's plan to save itself? : Fallout Series Discussion

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:54 am

Fallout 3 is the first and only Fallout game I have played, however I find the story and lore of this series to be highly interesting. I've done alot of reading up on the fallout wiki, however there is a situation that I have not been able to figure out.

I'm sure Vault-tec would have had a safe haven already prepared for its executives and higher management that could have been easily accessed for when the bombs started to fall. From what I've read on the wikia, vault-tec had a "secret vault" prepared for this purpose that was located in Los Angeles.

However Vault-Tec's corporate HQ is in the D.C. area, so I dont see how that could work out very effectively unless Vault-Tec had all its executives stationed across the country from the companys main facility. I could see the problem of trying to build a "secret vault" in the D.C area, but it seems that there had to be some plan to save the information and executives that resided in the DC headquarters.

Is there something I'm missing concerning this?

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:46 am

The executives could have flown out to the vault in L.A.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:11 am

Actually, it seems Vault-Tec had two seperate "HQs"; they began operations in LA, and sometime after opened operations at DC.

I'm thinking that while both were owned by Vault-Tec, and neither being their HQ (though West Coast may have been the "unofficial" HQ) the Vault-Tec HQ we see in DC is only the HQ for the eastern division of Vault-Tec; the western (original) division of Vault-Tec was in LA, and was the HQ for the Western Vaults.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:43 am

Actually, it seems Vault-Tec had two seperate "HQs"; they began operations in LA, and sometime after opened operations at DC.

I'm thinking that while both were owned by Vault-Tec, and neither being their HQ (though West Coast may have been the "unofficial" HQ) the Vault-Tec HQ we see in DC is only the HQ for the eastern division of Vault-Tec; the western (original) division of Vault-Tec was in LA, and was the HQ for the Western Vaults.

The only vault ment to save anyone was their secret vault.
"Remember,the vaults were never meant to save anyone."

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:16 am

The executives could have flown out to the vault in L.A.

The Western Coast was hit with nukes before the Eastern Coast. L.A. would have been one of the first cities to be wiped away. There's no way they would be flown towards a city after it's been hit with nukes.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:44 am

That or they were so busy planning their experiments they realized at the last minute and the last words out of the Vault-tek heads was "Oh S***".

I'd assume that the above posts, about and east and west HQ are likely the most accurate, its not uncommon for large companies to divide up countries and regions under smaller HQ's and have one head HQ where they started up. A real-world example is P&G, they have a Canadian HQ, a US HQ, a Euro HQ, etc.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:00 am

Actually, the LA Vault was a demonstration vault, not a secret vault. The "secret vault" appears only in the mostly non-canon Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel and is located in Texas.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:58 am

I believe they went to the Oil Rig with the Enclave, since the latter commissioned the Vault system.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:32 am

We still have no idea if there's a secret Vault-Tec Vault in like rural Connecticut or New Jersey. The east coast Vault-Tec might've set one up, this is the Enclave we're talking about here. They always have a plan to fall back on. They fell back on AAFB after Raven Rock, several 'secret' Vaults that the public didn't know existed, and for all we know, there are international Vaults the American public had no idea about, in areas like Australia and Russia.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:16 am

The only vault ment to save anyone was their secret vault.
"Remember,the vaults were never meant to save anyone."

Actually, there were 17 control vaults, made to perform as advertised.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:02 am

I believe they went to the Oil Rig with the Enclave, since the latter commissioned the Vault system.

It makes sense that many would have joined the Enclave, yes.

Others probably made sure they were in control vaults, or like Dr. Braun had control positions in experiment vaults.

Peons were probably treated like peons usually are.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:07 am

The enclave didnt hide out on the oil rig though, the hid out in thier own shelters, later moving operations to the oil rig. The Demonstration vault was built below Vault Tec headquarters in L.A. watch the Fallout intro, you will see the Vault tech main offices (Its god damned huge, immagine the Great pyramid if it was on a tower 40 stories high.) the headquarters in washington was most likely a regional office, called the headquarters by people not knowing any better after 200 years. Vault Tec execs probably hid out in thier own personal shelters with thier family and friends, well away from and locations likely to be targeted.

» Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:01 pm

The enclave didnt hide out on the oil rig though, the hid out in thier own shelters, later moving operations to the oil rig. The Demonstration vault was built below Vault Tec headquarters in L.A. watch the Fallout intro, you will see the Vault tech main offices (Its god damned huge, immagine the Great pyramid if it was on a tower 40 stories high.) the headquarters in washington was most likely a regional office, called the headquarters by people not knowing any better after 200 years. Vault Tec execs probably hid out in thier own personal shelters with thier family and friends, well away from and locations likely to be targeted.

I agree with you with the exception that some of the Vault Tec elite were appointed overseers in some of the dozen or so "low number vaults". The lower the number the more important the vault. Could that be Vault Zero in Cheyenne Mountain? There are some Vault Tec scientists preserved as brains in jars there. Time has made them insane but The Calculator thinks it can draw on their brilliance. Maybe that is why it suddenly decided to destroy humanity out of the blue one fine August morning...

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:21 am

The whole Vault-Tec vaults were a bunch of social experiments never really made much sense to me.

I mean I get it if they had been actually made as their original advertised purpose of actually saving the population from nuclear annihilation but the social experiments seem to defy common sense. Should nuclear holocaust wipe out all life (As generally expected by the population of the time) then stowing away a bunch of people to recreat civilization anew after the dust settles is fine; but taking the bulk of those survivors and observing them in a bunch of crazy as hell experiments, and potentially fatal most of the time, just for the pure hell of it ultimately just diminishes the number of people to rebuild after the holocaust.

So what was the freaking point? Where is the logic in wiping out the last shreds of your own species?

I don't know who "commissioned" the experiments, probably the Enclave as they are the root of all evil in Fallout, but was their way of thinking this: Just about everybody is going to be dead, hey let's take the few that actually did make it into the vaults and screw with them to ah...screw with them...then the 200 dillweeds in our own little safety nest will rebuild and repopulate with each other for generations to come...

I read in the Fallout bible about who made the call to suddenly change the purpose of the vaults when Black Isle was making Fallout 2, but no matter how I try to understand the reasoning behind the Enclave or whoever made the call to screw with the few survivors, and thus almost effetively killing themselves off in the process, I simply can't find a genuine answer other than "we did it to make them look more evil zoink!"

:shrug:

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:19 am

The whole Vault-Tec vaults were a bunch of social experiments never really made much sense to me.

I mean I get it if they had been actually made as their original advertised purpose of actually saving the population from nuclear annihilation but the social experiments seem to defy common sense. Should nuclear holocaust wipe out all life (As generally expected by the population of the time) then stowing away a bunch of people to recreat civilization anew after the dust settles is fine; but taking the bulk of those survivors and observing them in a bunch of crazy as hell experiments, and potentially fatal most of the time, just for the pure hell of it ultimately just diminishes the number of people to rebuild after the holocaust.

So what was the freaking point? Where is the logic in wiping out the last shreds of your own species?

I don't know who "commissioned" the experiments, probably the Enclave as they are the root of all evil in Fallout, but was their way of thinking this: Just about everybody is going to be dead, hey let's take the few that actually did make it into the vaults and screw with them to ah...screw with them...then the 200 dillweeds in our own little safety nest will rebuild and repopulate with each other for generations to come...

I read in the Fallout bible about who made the call to suddenly change the purpose of the vaults when Black Isle was making Fallout 2, but no matter how I try to understand the reasoning behind the Enclave or whoever made the call to screw with the few survivors, and thus almost effetively killing themselves off in the process, I simply can't find a genuine answer other than "we did it to make them look more evil zoink!"

:shrug:

They were testing them to see how humans would react under various situations in preparation for a voyage to a new world to colonize on a ship they were building.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:49 am

That's just my point, who exactly would colonize? The sole remaining puppet masters? There would be way too few to colonize much of anything with just them and the 17 control vaults that work. Given of course that any survivors outside the vaults are automatically discarded from this would be utopia. All they were doing is definitively depleting their own numbers.

If the Enclave were behind the experiments then it would be counter productive; as any meglomaniacal fascist government will tell you, there isn't much point to being the rulers of the world if there isn't anybody left to rule. Given their view of "impures", them wiping out the only few other compatible sources of genetically viable candidates for reproduction and recolonization would only secure the Enclave's own demise or taint from inbreeding after a number of generations. Also while the Enclave are evil enough to come up with this absurd type of experiments and worse, they never struck me as a particularly stupid group.

If it wasn't the Enclave, then those idiots were even dumber as they secured their own deaths and the experiments were pointless.

So still doesn't make sense from a rational pov what it is that they foresaw to gain from these experiments. :shrug:

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:25 am

Yeah, it makes no sense whatsovever. They KNEW a nuclear holocaust was coming, and yet built all these vaults just to screw with people instead of save them. Makes perfect sense to me.. :shakehead: IMO this was all just a plot device introduced in Fallout 2 to try and make things more interesting. Bethesda should have based F3 even more strongly on Fallout 1, and simply forgot about F2's "sinister conspiracy" storyline.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:00 am

Yeah, it makes no sense whatsovever. They KNEW a nuclear holocaust was coming, and yet built all these vaults just to screw with people instead of save them. Makes perfect sense to me.. :shakehead: IMO this was all just a plot device introduced in Fallout 2 to try and make things more interesting. Bethesda should have based F3 even more strongly on Fallout 1, and simply forgot about F2's "sinister conspiracy" storyline.

The Vaults were advertised as intended to save people but that is never what they were sopposed to to. The Benefactors of the Vaults were people with (censored) tons of money who didn't pay for them for the good of humanity. We aren't talking about our world. We Are talking about a world where the USA could invade Canada and the news would cover our troops executing prisnors in the streets and people cheer. In the Fallout Universe it makes perfect sense that the Vaults were just a sadistic experiment to amuse the elite survivors after a nuclear war.
.
Fallout One was about a Vault that got BOPPED and only given ONE water chip. In Fallout Two it is revealed that water chips were an inexpensive and abundant component delivered by the crate load to other Vaults. Fallout One clearly established that something was dreadfully wrong with the Vaults...
.
Even looking only at Fallout One for canon we can see by the Overseer's plan to save his Vault 13 that water chips are something you can just go to your neighbor (Vault 15) and borrow like a cup of sugar. And when that fails he still only thinks he needs one guy out there looking for one because they are as common as Vault suits and shouldn't be that hard to find, even in the face of catastrophe.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:29 am

I think people are missing the point about the FO Universe. Things are a little "off" here and the pre-war government (which was pretty much controlled by the Enclave) was full of individuals who really had a mentality that 1-Nuclear War was winnable and 2-Once it was fought, the US could immediately get back to getting things right, either in the US or in space.

Things like the Vault experiments and a spaceship to another planet are really far-fetched but the people in power actually believed them. I won't get political here but there are certainly several RL things you can think of that the government really seems to believe, or used to believe some pretty unlikely things, like how kids could survive a nuclear war by getting under their desks.

They actually believed that many in the vaults would survive even if they were in a vault that had experiments. For instance the Vault with the sound experiments, the people who designed it certainly though the experiment would be successful and that some vault dwellers would not only survive but be stronger for it. The fact that most of these experiments would fail and cause the death of everyone in the vault didn't even occur to them. These people in these experiment vaults would be in fact better prepared for space travel in their minds than the control vaults.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:05 am

if vault tec set up a means of communication between vaults meant to preserve humanity like vault 101 humanity would be better off

» Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:02 pm

if vault tec set up a means of communication between vaults meant to preserve humanity like vault 101 humanity would be better off

The Tactics intro suggests they did. However, this was designed to fail to keep the vaults seperate from each other.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:13 pm

From the Wiki (and I believe the guide says the same thing)
"This was Vault-Tec's base of operations around the DC area."

There was likely at least one HQ in every state, possibly in every city.

From the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_Bible_1 (under "Vault System":

Basically, the Vaults were never intended to save the population of the United States. With a population of almost 400 million by 2077, the U.S. would need nearly 400,000 Vaults the size of Vault 13, and Vault-Tec was commissioned to build only 122 such Vaults. The real reason for these Vaults was to study pre-selected segments of the population to see how they react to the stresses of isolationism and how successfully they re-colonize after the Vault opens. Some of the experiments include:

Vault 8 - A control Vault, intended to open and re-colonize the surface after 10 years. Vault City is the result. Unfortunately.
Vault 12 - In order the study the effects of radiation on the selected population, the Vault Door was designed not to close. This is the Necropolis Vault... and the ghouls were the result.
Vault 13 - Intended to stay closed for 200 years as a study of prolonged isolation, the broken water chip forced the Overseer to improvise and use the Vault Dweller as a pawn. Later study of the Vault 13 records by the Enclave led them to their current plan to end the war.
Vault 15 - Intended to stay closed for 50 years and include people of radically diverse ideologies. Gathered from what you hear from Aradesh in Fallout 1, he has quite a bit of multi-cultural flavoring to his speech.
Vault 27 - This Vault would be overcrowded deliberately. 2000 people would be assigned to enter, double the total sustainable amount. The location of this Vault is unknown.
Vault 29 - No one in this Vault was over the age of 15 when they entered. Parents were redirected to other Vaults on purpose. Harold is believed to have come from this Vault.
Vault 34 - The armory was overstocked with weapons and ammo and not provided with a lock.
Vault 36 - The food extruders were designed to produce only a thin, watery gruel.
Vault 42 - No light bulbs of more than 40 watts were provided.
Vault 53 - Most of the equipment was designed to break down every few months. While repairable, the breakdowns were intended to stress the inhabitants unduly.
Vault 55 - All entertainment tapes were removed.
Vault 56 - All entertainment tapes were removed except those of one particularly bad comic actor. Sociologists predicted failure before Vault 55.
Vault 68 - Of the one thousand people who entered, there was only one woman.
Vault 69 - Of the one thousand people who entered, there was only one man.
Vault 70 - All jumpsuit extruders fail after 6 months.
Vault 106 - Psychoactive drugs were released into the air filtration system 10 days after the Door was sealed.

Rumor has it there were 122 different vault experiments. For Fan Fiction purposes, a lot of these vault experiments have been left open for you to play around with

Communication between experiments would have contaminated the experiments; but what if? The major concern is that the vault dwellers not learn that they are being experimented on, allowing contact between vaults increases the risk that the experiment will be detected.

So, the vaults were social experiments (according to a developer) and weren't ment to save humanity, Why?
The vault-tec company, or whoever contracted them, did not believe that humanity would be wiped out by a nuclear war (and by FO lore, it wouldn't have been), and that the US was just going to keep running as usual. So there may not have been a vault for the vault-tec officials. But why not have one, after skimming funds from 122 vaults they could have surely build an extra one on the sly.

Vault 0 is the governments vault, and may have been able to monitor the other vaults.

- edit -
Note that it says that "there were 122 different vault experiments," different experiments, not vaults, and this number may not include control vaults; so you can have a vault 300, and may have vaults with higher numbers. Vaults near strategic sites (or that had a lot of pull in the government) would have been built first. If you assume that state capitals have an average of five vaults you have a minimum of 250. Adding in other major cities (and the annexing of Canada) you can easily exceed 300 vaults.