Disclaimer: Before I start this review, let me say that these are just my opinions. I'm a longtime fan of The Elder Scrolls and I love the series. When I'm reviewing this dlc, I'm trying to see if it lives up to the standards of a Bethesda game. As such my review may be a bit harsher than if I were to compare it to a "normal" video game. Feel free to agree or disagree, but remember: we like what we like and we hate what we hate. There's nothing wrong with different opinions. Also, I want to keep spoilers to a minimum here, but some vague hints may have slipped through, and I put spoiler marks on major things I couldn't keep out. Just a fair warning.

So guys, let's talk about Dawnguard! First off I'm going to answer your most important question: "Is Dawnguard fun?" Yes. It's a fun dlc. Whether you're patient enough to put up with it at times is a different question.

You probably know the basics of this dlc by now, but here's the low down: Two (allegedly) different, opposing questlines and factions, each with its own castle. One letting you join a group of vampire hunters, the other letting you betray them and join the filthy blood svckers (Yes, you're forced to join the dawnguard at first...even if you're a vampire). You're also treated to two amazingly well done locations that are quite large, but quite empty. For what they are though they are beautiful and fun. If you join the vampires you can transform into an awesomely fun, yet clunky and sometimes buggy, vampire lord! You can also (not quite) help end the "tyranny of the sun" and "block it out". This particular feature was a bit....of a let down, but we'll get into that later.

First, let's talk about some of the bad stuff. Todd, for example, said in an interview that we'd get our own forts and could upgrade them. This is absent from the game, replaced with extremely minimal automatic "upgrades" that simply clean up small sections of the dirty forts or, in the case of fort dawnguard, add some basic things like alchemy tables and the like. No customization or upgrading, less so than regular houses.

There's also a...rather annoying random encounter when vampires spawn inside cities and attack. This would be fine, but you can't stop them from triggering like you can with dragons. If you have the dlc and either start the questline or are level 10+ this WILL happen. The issue here is that they can spawn anywhere in a city, even on the other side of it, while you remain blissfully unaware that vampires are killing all the townsfolk. They don't even try to run, opting to fight the nightstalkers with iron dagger, promptly dying. I like how Kotaku's review mentioned that random vampires kill npcs. Honestly I'm getting sick of going to Whiterun and having vampires attacking my friends on the other side of town (even after the main quest they attack just as much). I explored that area of the city several (ingame) days later only to find ash piles and dead npcs. Wtf? At least with a dragon you ALWAYS know it's happening and they tend to focus on you, but this is getting rediculous......Note that this is NOT a problem for everyone, some people rarely seeing vampires attack at all, but many people find it difficult to focus on anything BUT this dlc when random encounters like these distract from everything else. Regardless, this leaves many players in an endless war of attrition, where towns will EVENTUALLY be left as ghost towns. This could have been resolved in several ways:

1. Make it so that instead of repetitive and mindless vampire killing, you can help the guards FIGHT BACK by training and upgrading them. If you're a vampire hunter, doesn't this make sense? This will decrease the liklihood of attack, make attacks happen outside of the gates with vampires TRYING to get in, and increases guard's chances of killing them quickly should they break in. If this is an "invasion of vampires" they should have gone all the way and let people REALLY fight back.
2. Make defenseless npcs run instead of fight using the system that worked in Oblivion, where every character has a level of courage and aggression that determines whether they fight or run. This is absent in skyrim apperently.
3. Make it so that, instead of making characters essential, important npcs can only be killed by the player, sparing them from dragons and vampires. Fallout New Vegas worked fine with no essentials. Skyrim needs SOME system however, because of all the random attacks on citizens. OR they could have made generic npcs be replaced by new ones. It doesn't make sense that no one ever moves back into houses or works at inns or shops after the previous owner dies.

But none of this was done. Bethesda really didn't think this aspect through. The beta testers allegedly complained about this, thinking it was a bug, but bethesda left this in.

On to the story: it was mediocre. The backstory was good (TES lore in general is fantastic) but the actual plot points and characters were cliche and typical. I guess the days of Morrowind and it's deep, cerebral story are over. Maybe my expectations were too high though.

Bugs and odd design choices are (unfortunetly) to be expected. You main companion is glitched, making the vampire lord's main spell to extremely low damage at times whenever she's with you. The vampire lord is attacked by everyone in the vampire castle when he transforms. Also, he or she has trouble getting through low ceilings and doorways, bumping into them instead of just having a "crouching down" animation. He also can't loot anything, or open containers, or interact with many objects. This is fine for the werewolf, who is a mindless beast, but doesn't make sense for a cunning master of the night.

My main issue was the total lack of consequence, decisions, and feeling that your choices AFFECT the world. Note that this is where some serious spoilers come in, but I marked them all. I can't in good conscience not tell you guys about this stuff. No matter what happens, the vampire is forced to instead of being given the option of being an evil vampire, joining Heck, I'd rather that outcome be non-canon than not give me the option at all. Instead I get this crappy It's so half-baked. Oh and vampires can join the Dawnguard???? You'd think a bunch of seasoned vampire hunters would recognize a vampire when they see one. And dawnguard gets to become a I mean come on! What ever happened to consequences? Choices the player makes having positive and negative outcomes? Advantages AND drawbacks. There's no drama when my hand is being yanked (it's not even hand holding at this point) and I'm being pidgeonholed into one outcome where none of my choices seem to matter much.

/angry biased negative rant.

Back to the positive stuff.

I thought it was super fun to play as a vampire lord, and the soul cairn was great! The dungeon that led to the bow (being vague to prevent spoilers) is pretty cool too and contained some new elements (something the entire dlc should have tried to do). What I wanted was more things like the this dungeon. It added new dungeon elements, mechanics (using water currents and darkness in interesting, creative ways) new enemies, new flora and fauna, new buildings, expanded on lore and created new lore, new architectural forms from a race whose architecture we haven't seen before, a glimpse into a different culture etc. That should have been the spirit of Dawnguard as a whole. That's where it really shined. If it weren't for those issues I mentioned earlier, this bit would have made the dlc really wow me. But It's pretty "meh" in general. Good by normal game standards but it doesnt live up to what I expect from a quality bethesda experience.

So, those are my thoughts on Dawnguard. *Sigh* I probably sounded like a hater at some points, but I'm trying not to be. Honest. I just grew up with TES and get way to worked up over it haha. So, tell me YOUR thoughts on the game. Was I too rough? Not rough enough? Something major I missed and you want me to add? Let's discuss!

Vampire lord being unable to loot anything or interact was the point, if you could do that then you would never bother transforming back to mortal form. Random vampire attacks are not bad but it is annoying when they kill an npc who could have had quests.

Well you'd transform back whenever you were around others. The civil war battles wouldn't work as a vl for example. It just doesn't make sense realistically to be unable to open chests. It wouldnt be a problem, but the transition is laggy chore to sit through. I agree with the second point. It becomes more annoying for people like me who get attached to npcs.

I also wanted to add that the backstory behind that "crappy bow" I mentioned is quite fascinating, especially for someone whose as deep into the lore as I am. Another reason I think the backstory here was great.

Because you're not suppose to use the vampire lord as a new skin so you can play the whole game like it and go around talking to people and opening chests. It is called balance, if you could do all that you would never bother to transform back but I get your point, you still retain you mind unlike werewolves (though that is currently debatable) but thing is they need you to shift back to your old form. VL is useful against higher level monsters and bandits, not for being near allies or joining in civil wars.

I agree with the second point too though I don't care for them since I enjoy killing but it is because I don't like to be robbed of quests and potential rewards.

Auriel's bow? it does work on cloudy days, you just got to aim at the brightest part of the could. It worked for me.

Like i said, there would still be MANY situations where you couldn't use it. Anytime non vampires were around you'd be exposed as a vampire. They could have gone hardcoe and made it so that you had to kill the witnesses or else your secret was out for good. Wasn't bloodmoon sort of like that? Dont remember. Regardless either of those things would've been a much better drawback than this nonsense. Also like I said, the transformation is long and laggy, making switching back and forth a chore as Eurogamer pointed out.

yep same here.
although good luck finding the sun when it is completely cloudy and snowy out.

I've never gotten it to work. I can fix this in my review, but my opinion it remains the same. It's a half-baked version of what I was expecting when they said I could

So anyway, what are your thoughts on this review, or on Dawnguard in general? I want to know what you guys think.

I personally loved dawnguard...as FIRST dlc. it was a lot of fun and i got about 25 hours of decent content out of it. Of course i wished we got more areas to explore, exploration was the main thing that brought me to the elder scrolls games in the first place. despite this i found dawnguard to be quite enjoyable. however i expect all major dlc's after this to be bigger and better.

i liked it, i agree with ur opinion of the new ruins, and the forge quest was badass, the new weapons are cool...being able to FINALLY make arrows was worth the 20 bucks alone...the soul cairn was cool but i couldnt re-enter it so i screwed myself out of alot of quests... all in all thumbs-up from me

edit..the crossbow reticle svcks ass...id rather use a bow because of it

Interesting review. It sounds like I'll be very glad that I'm on PC when it comes out, and like it'll benefit greatly from mods(don't mean to be lording it over you, just ruminating on my future gameplay experience). I'm sure there'll be a way to fix the attacks(or, preferably for me personally, get rid of them entirely) pretty soon after release, and someone will probably figure out how to allow VLs to "bat-through" doors. It's funny that it sounds like it would work better on PC first due to these little nitpicks that could easily be fixed or at least mitigated through the CK and access to the console.

Anyway, I'm not surprised to learn that Dawnguard can . Beth kinda painted themselves into a corner with the DG faction, they gave so much to the Volkihar that there's no incentive to play Dawnguard, especially since vamps can use crossbows to an extent. No to mention the DG sounds so dull, like a Fighter's Guild 2.0. I don't want to be a vampire(aside from VL form), but I'm totally going to mod my game so I can side with them without becoming one, and add the VL form power to my character via console. I'm rambling now, so I guess I'll go.

No need to go. I appreciate the feedback. There should have been more incentive to Dawnguard. Maybe it's just because I grew up on Angel / Buffy, but I always though vampire slayers were supposed to be supernatural as well. Dawnguard should have been blessed with super powers to balance out to the vampire lords. Maybe some of them dynamically used light? Both sun and regular.

Yeah, some sort of ace up the DG's sleeve would have been nice. But they just get an...armored troll? It's very unbalanced, but I'm unsure of what I would have given them to sweeten the pot. Perhaps added spears in addition to crossbows(we saw them in the game jam video way back when, in addition to an early VL), and forced the choice: a new gameplay style, or new weapon types. Neither side can access the other side's main draw.

Good review. Haha, you summed it up well. A+ for you.

Really. I disagree. I thought the bow was a crappy crappy crappy plot device. Snow elves should have had their own DLC and should have never been added into this DLC at all. They should have actually taken the [censored] time to work out a good story that didn't involve flipping snow elves and a snow elf vampire. I could write a better Dawnguard DLC. Actually you know what I'm going to do that.

....it's the bow that That hing has been barely mentioned since Morrowind. I'm holding an aedra's bow. Living proof of his power and Lorkhan's treachery. It's not just some falmer trinket.

Snow Elves shouldn't have been added. I felt Dawnguard visually distracts you with the next pretty, shiny, massive thing. Dragons, snow elves, vampire lords, etc. I could write a better DLC.

I was talking about the background lore remember? We both agree the story was mediocre.

It's a shame that video games can never make "good guys" seem cool. I'd applaud bethesda if they managed to make a faction like dawnguard seem as cool as the dark brotherhood or the volkihar. I think people just accept that "good is dumb" and dont even try. Still, Dawnguard should have been supernatural vampire slayers with more gadgets and weapons. Would've sweetened the deal a bit.

Edit: Also, what did you guys think of the "different" questlines. Not so different in my opinion. Thoughts?

My thoughts? Dawnguard is too gimmicky and its plot is absurd. Bethesda seems to have taken a page out of Bioware's playbook where choices don't matter since you're going through the same fights at the end. (DA2, anyone?)

Yeah. I have to agree with that there. I refused to play DA2 though so I wouldn't know. By the way, I saw one of the devs looking at this review. The same one several times actually....hope I didn't piss him off.

Great Review, I agree wholeheartedly.

Well regrettably you've done a great review dude, very nice work.
Like you it seems that after seeing videos of game jam and the epic false trailer, i was thinking this would be THE dlc skyrim needed to be close to perfection.
There is nothing i can really add to your review its complete and fair i think, except that i agree with X27 : they should have made an entire DLC about snow elves.
I was really ready to wait one year after skyrim or more to get a answer about dwemers, snow elves and such... i mean a real one.
The problem with this dlc is that there is so much disapointment for me that it overtakes the good aspects of the game.
I wish we could at least have a feed back from any guy of the team bethesda here in the forum to discuss about why it fails like that, why its wrong and why they lied about the content...
I mean why bethesda is just ignoring everything? Its a cool thing for a studio to have their fans and chat about cool or annoying things to improve a game. Instead of that they only have a bunch of lawyers very active and ready to make you suffer if you dare shout "fus ro dah" cause its copyrighted... very distant and defensive behaviour. When you think they tried to prosecute Notch the creator of minecraft and finally put the "notch's pickaxe" in the game .... very strange but whatever.