Hello! I'd like to hear some feedback from anyone that has managed to create a successful and powerful melee stealth fighter, focusing on dual wield, sneak, and light armor with as few perks in archery as possible. I really want to make this work, but so far at level 13 it's feeling as if the game pressures you into pure warrior, archer or mage archetypes given the wildly varying difficulty levels of creatures throughout the environment, leaving few options for the lightly armored skirmisher. The problem seems to be that stealth-based play is only useful against enemies that would be easy enough to kill using ANY skills or tactics, i.e. bandits and common nuisances. My character is fantastic at clearing out dungeons of humanoids, yet out in the open I am absolutely demolished by bears, trolls, wispmothers, and other mythical, hard-hitting monsters. Basically, if stealth openers aren't possible or the one-hit kill doesn't happen, going toe to toe with these creatures will be disastrous even with as many perks into weapon and armor skills as the current level will allow, and a healthy amount of stamina for power attack chaining. Defense and survival in open combat is a serious problem. I end up just pulling out my bow most of the time to chip away at these enemies using terrain to screw up the AI, and this is highly unsatisfying.

For those that have stuck with it through these rough patches, when and how does it get better? I am getting destroyed so powerfully that I can't imagine this dual-wielding, lightly-armored stealth route ever turning into something satisfying. Are the thief-type characters meant to simply avoid most of the creatures and encounters in the world, while focusing on humanoid populations in which their skill sets represent laughable overkill? I'm hearing a lot about magic being underpowered (feels strong imo), heavy warriors being overpowered (seems balanced), and yet very little in the way of thief or assassination viability. What gives?

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

i feel for you.

Invest in smithing, the armor gain from upgrades is HUGE.

Also, I am playing a melee assassin build and at level 16 took out a dragon solo! Just remember to think ahead with potions. The one hit kill will work most of the time (I recommend getting the 30x damage bonus gloves from the Brotherhood) and if that doesnt work or if you are faced with confrontation.... think creatively, or use potions!

I'm on my 3rd attepmt with melle/bow stealthy killer type character.... I dont have any advice other then if you see a dragon or a troll run your ass off

I just do some running when I get caught. When the enemy loses me, I go back for the backstab.

assassin implies stealth imo, which kinda means sneak or die. As for going toe to toe with powerful creatures/npcs. It can be done, but you can't be conventional(which skirmishers shouldn't be). Your defense is basically you moving out of their swings and getting in your own while they recover. I use unrelenting force to stagger then power attack for good damage and then dance around chipping away till its back up and do it again. Honestly i don't think it will ever be strong without some seriously good passive defenses like high AR or persistent shield effect because yea a sabre tooth cat will two shot you if you try and chain power attacks.

When you get the Assassin's Blade perk it finally comes together.

I'm at level 33 now and most encounters are still very challenging but when I can use stealth the effectiveness of backstab is quite rewarding.

However, if playing on master difficulty, you have to use some kind of ranged support in order to defeat dragons. You will either need to use a Bow, Magic or bring along a companion or dog to distract them.

I haven't spent any perks at all on light armor and almost all of my level up points go into stamina instead of health or magicka. This is probably why most enemies are still able to one-shot me. My focus has been on the perk trees for one-handed, sneak, alchemy, smithing and archery.

So far I've noticed the aura whisper, whirlwind sprint, throw voice and elemental fury shouts seem to be the most helpful shouts for a stealth build.

Are you only using daggers or are you using swords or axes as well? If only daggers, you might think about having a set of swords/axes to bring out when the sneak attack doesn't quite do the trick. Also, don't forget light armor perks and upping health at level up. Both will help survivability. Oh, daggers aren't terribly dangerous until you get the x15 perk, either. Only other tip I can give is health potions: Use them. Same with stamina potions, actually. Add alchemy to your skills, make stamina potions as far as the eye can see, then never stop power attacking.

When you want to fight in melee with strong opponents illusion and alternation come very handy as well as poisons, paralyzing someone,charming or fearing while dragonhide is up (80% less melee damage taken for 30s, and that's w/o any alternation perks) makes life alot easier.

Very cool, although I have much, much more trouble with "common" outdoor creatures than I do with the epic dragons. I literally cannot kill trolls, bears, or anything with high health + damage, without resorting to almost pure archery tactics. If I had wanted to use archery most of the time, I would have made an archery-focused character; what I want is a melee assassin. I also put a few points into illusion in anticipation of the prolonged combat disadvantages, but those are often unusable against certain types of creatures or higher level enemies, leaving me with only one option: avoid combat altogether and forget about killing the creature in question. That svcks.

Granted, the Elder Scrolls games have never really figured out how to allow for satisfying NON-archery stealth play, but with all the talk of "you can play anything you want" from Bethesda, you'd think that the 3rd time would be a charm.

I'm playing as a Thief/Illusionist and I love it.

A bow is essential to stealth play, although I don't think you need points in archery to use one effectively. Some of those outdoor critters (I'm looking at the bears and Wispmother) are really powerful early on. It does seem a little strange that you're saying that 'stealth' is ineffective because you can't go toe to toe. That's sort of the point, no? If you run up against something you can't handle, run! Find cover, go back and get that first hit in. The thing I like about stealth play is how strategic it is. It requires a bit of creativity.

There are a couple of game changing perks in the stealth tree, however. 15x dmg from a dagger and silent roll, in particular. I use a shield in close combat. Maybe you should keep one around for the bears and such? At all times I have a mace, dagger, sword, shield and three spells ready to go. Playing stealth properly is about being prepared and creative.

Good luck! It can sure work. I'm having a total blast.

The stealth gameplay is really well done in Skyrim, especially compared to previous TES games.

You need assassin's blade + powerful poison + a well-crafted dagger to backstab all those creatures. armor that increases your sneak and one-handed also help. If you don't manage to one-shot them the first time, for high health enemies I'm usually able to get a couple of 15x dagger blows in before my cover is blown.

If that happens, you can run away a short distance, hide and you can get your hidden status back.

When all else fails, use Become Ethereal or Whirlwind Sprint shouts to make a last resort escape and hide again, then sneak back and get your revenge.

Sneak Perks
Onehanded Perks for duel wield
Elemental fury shout
???
Profit

This.

Once that dragon lands its as good as dead.

Sneak or Die; well put! The problem i'm having is that some creatures in the world won't go down in one stealthed attack, not by a longshot. I guess i'm having class envy with this latest character, as it seems to be the only archetype that has to ever resort to running away from a fight or avoiding entirely. Some of the enemies outclass me so powerfully that I have to assume that this is working as intended - they meant for stealth characters to pick their fights carefully, with those mythical outdoor monsters representing insurmountable obstacles from our perspective. I'm just worried that at some point, i'll run into one of those unkillable-by-stealth-characters type of uber creatures that i'll NEED to kill to advance in the game, what then? Can't run forever from a quest objective that you need to complete.

I'm hoping that once I get far enough into the sneak tree and/or finally learn the invisibility spell, i'll be able to play a sort of pop-in/pop-out of stealth dance with stealth criticals every pass on the same tough monsters, eventually killing it with like 10 of these maneuvers. Either that or i'll find sufficiently uber gear to be able to deal and receive the type of punishment that even your sub-par warrior/mage would be used to.

My character is duel-wield, archery, stealth, heavy armor, and smithing and I've made it to lvl 23 pretty easily. I have almost run from fights with trolls early on and also dragons are still relatively tough on my own or even with just one companion but otherwise its been pretty easy.

With smithing I always upgrade my armor and weapons as soon as I can so that's helpful. If you need help dealing with anything then just stop, leave, and come back later. Get a companion because that is really helpful. Otherwise just keep trying, I've been really successful with my character.

Heavy armor??

I'm not sure how Skyrim's level scaling works, but in any proper rpg you leave, raise your skills, get new equipment, then return to rain down death. Level scaling might not make this a viable strategy.

I play mage/thief with sneak/illusion/restoration/destruction. I try to sneak attack wherever possible, and one-shot most everything, but when switch fight, I switch to spellcasting. What I'm really looking forward to is potential synergy with the 100 skill stealth perk and the Fury spell.

To put it simply, i'm wondering if it would be crazy to continue building up a stealth assassin with little to no perks in archery. That's what i want, but it's probably severely gimped. What would help tremendously would be perks or even an entire skill tree based around dodge and avoidance. They should make a Martial Arts skill tree in the next installment that could combine the lost skills of hand-to-hand, unarmored, and the aforementioned dodge and avoidance mechanics.

I'm not sure how you'd implement dodge these days. In Morrowind it was easy because of the combat mechanics. You didn't have to actually show anyone dodging. I guess you could essentially add it as a passive ability, kind of like blocking was in Morrowind. You'd just need some type of animation for dodging. Or, you could add it like it was in Oblivion with the little combat rolls. I don't really like the latter implementation because I svck at timing it right, but I might like a passive dodge ability.

I don't have points in archery and use my bow very effectively for my purposes.

The illusion tree is epic for a dagger-wielding assassin. Only downfall is that you'll be spending levels increasing magicka that could be used for HP. But... if you're a good assassin, (with the aid of illusion spells) you shouldn't need any extra hit points.

Yes. I started with light armor (nord character btw) because I focused on hunting and the bow a lot but now that I use my melee a lot more I use the heavier armor because the mobility isn't as crucial once I'm face to face with the other guy. I still use my bow to take out foes before they reach me as well as the critical bonus and poison arrows. I recently took out a whole camp of foresworn from a hillside just with my bow.

I guess my character isn't an assassin per say because my bow use started with hunting but I think RP wise my character skill selection makes sense. If I do play an assassin purely stealth I'll use light armor ^^

I suggest activating the Shadow standing stone. You get a once per day brief invisibility that works well for taking down the tougher enemies and since it is not technically a spell it fits a bit better with stealth/assassin roleplay.

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