Indeed I do have those plates, Not sure totally how many I made or what I changed so I'll send you the entire compressed folder. Shall I upload to 4shared for you and give you a link? Do you want more plates? (there's more resources now, so I could make even more of them).

EDIT: sent a PM.

I totally forgot the details of this episode. I'm happy to hear ASArrive by Ship fixes the issue. I don't use Alt Start mods, by the way....I still crawl through the Char Gen quest each new character I create.

I'm assuming Kelben's issue is something else though...seeing as it only occurs when COBL is loaded. Ah, speculation...we'll see what it takes to fix this issue. COBL + VVA is just too good to not have working properly.



Got it! I'll tinker around with them a bit and see what I can do. Thanks much dewshine.

I don?t use any alternate start mods and of course i tested it with a full stomach AND an empty stomach normally you can rest around 4 or 5 hours with a full fatigue bar and an empty stomach before going unconsious.

Well i did mess around with timescale and i read the whole thread here and the one before so i also figured the problem must be something with COBLs timescale modificatation. One thing is certain, i never just went unconsious after changing timescale or so. It ONLY happened when i waited 1 or more hours using the normal unchanged wait menu ....

Oh and YES i paid attention to all readmes regarding load order !

EDIT:
Forgot to mention the timescale i usually use is 12. It was the standard for VV back in 2006 when i first started my char.

Ok, the only other thing I can figure is you have a conflict with another mod. Try putting the COBL and VVA .esps at the end of your load order, see if that makes any difference.

If not, post your load order here so I can see if I notice anything.

Posting to let everyone know that I'm working on a COBL dinnerplate patch. Current mods that I'm pulling from listed below:

Masters for: COBL_Dinnerplate_interchange.esp00  Oblivion.esm01  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.52]02  Qarls_Harvest.esm03  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.6beta3]04  Better Cities Resources.esm05  CLS-Craftybits.esm06  Toaster Says Share v3.esm07  Waalx Animals & Creatures.esm08  morerunes' food collection.esm09  Francesco's Optional New Creatures Add-On.esm0A  Q - More and Moldy Ingredients v1.1.esp0B  DLCVileLair.esp0C  ICEXPAND.esp0D  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp0E  DLCFrostcrag.esp0F  Imperial City Waterfront Tunnel Entrance.esp10  Better Imperial City.esp11  MidasSpells.esp12  sixlivion.esp13  lumi_alchemyexpanded.esp14  The Clean Plate.esp15  BrewHouse.esp16  Bosmer Meat Mandate.esp  [Version 3.]17  eek's Cooking Mod - Demo.esp18  XiaValentinesDayGift07.esp19  AliveWaters.esp1A  Cooking Mod v1.1 - Nuhmbuh1.esp1B  More_Vegetables.esp1C  CMOvens.esp1D  Mud Crabs!.esp1E  Mud Crabs!_MMM.esp1F  Soup01b.esp20  D3Y_CulinaryMod_v1.esp21  Shads Coffee.esp22  Rays Hunting System v1.esp23  OMP-NewFood.esp24  Shads Hunting & Fauna.esp25  coffeeshop.esp26  Cannibalism.esp27  JQ-PizzaShop.esp28  OblivionFarmer'sMarket3.esp29  OblivionFarmer'sMarket3NoHungry.esp2A  More_Animals.esp2B  MrPwners Cooking v0.1.esp2C  TamrielSnacks11-DV.esp2D  TamrielSnacks11-EV.esp2E  tchos' breakfast food.esp2F  GreatForestMarket.esp  [Version -----]30  Obicos_Ingredient_Increaser_v11-5131.esp31  TSPPies_in_Cyrodiil.esp

This patch will work like Item Interchange, in that it will be an non-active patch with a filter tag that will allow Wrye Bash to find any mod that I've listed here and add said foods to the dinnerplate in COBL.

Anyone know of food mods I'm missing?

Wow! That's a lot. FYI for other folks:
The way this will work is: Cobl has a few new leveled lists (cobEatMeatRaw, cobEatVeggies, etc.). When the dinner plate is activated, Cobl will look to these leveled lists to define edible food items. Nutrition for each food will then be proportioned to it's weight. As you might guess, this only works if OBSE is installed/active (feature requires OBSE commands to be able to scan leveled lists, get item weights, etc.)

So with Cobl's code, all that's necessary is for mods to add their foods to the appropriate leveled list. Dewshine is doing that for a bunch of mods. Resulting patch mod basically has nothing but leveled lists (and lots of masters).

Ordinarily, many masters would be a problem (since most users won't have all mods active), however another bash features is being used to deal with that. Basically, when merging mods in, Bash has the ability to discard items from masters that aren't loaded. I.e. Bash does a "Filtered Merge", keeping only the items that you can use.

Woot! Since we're here (in the VVA thread, as opposed to one of the other two threads in which you've mentioned this ), I must ask if this means that you or someone has to attribute food values to all these foods for them to be useable by the VVA Ration Pack? Or if maybe that will be managed by the COBL levelled lists in some way (hope so, if it means avoiding an insurmountable mountain of further work)? Anyway, just wondering how this benefits me the VVA user in the end (although since I use a large number of these mods already, I certainly hope it does, and appreciate this action more than I can say).

Oh, I see you've already found Great Forest Market, but doesn't NPCs with Jobs contain new ingredients?

You might also consider http://hosted.filefront.com/giskarduk/2330218 (CURP); it contains at the very least items from http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=18961, it is a 'resource pack' with its own ESM, and several popular mods (Kvatch Aftermath, Origin of the Mages Guild, The Elder Council, Cyrodiil Upgrade Overhaul, in addition to others) depend on it. I only looked at the first archive of the pack and found things like "CoralBrainIngredient" and "CoralElkHornIngredient", so there are food ingredients available. Since Giskard has now quit OB modding 'forever" (according to his site), I would imagine that even the last archive, which normally would change as updates were added, is probably "final" to whatever extent, so it should be relatively "safe" to work with, and I and many others would appreciate this non-invasive integration of "the mods that stand alone" as it were.

I'm sure there's a couple more, but I didn't have time to look them up yesterday; hopefully I'll have more time today. I'll keep you posted-- and thanks again, dewshine!

Oh, another thing-- could you (maybe) post a list of the new foods available in the CraftyBits thread, so those of us who were happily making recipes could know what we have to cook with and get cracking for submission to the CB team?

I'll look into NPC with Jobs. And the CURP esm too. Thanks for those.

-- list of new foods? oh, well... I suppose I could so something like that. In fact I was wondering if I should do something like that. So I'll compile one today.

I'm wondering how hard it would be to upgrade the V&V alcohol plug to change the stats and apply drunk effects to other brews. (because I've found loads of them too, and most don't have the negatives to drinking them (or the benefits, but that's beside the point).) Or should I look for a different way? If the current script for the drunk effect was set up to look for list just like the dinner plate is could I make a similar patch for it?

I'm hoping that the cooking can be converted to the crosshair ref system so that if you have "wolf meat" or "rabbit meat" from any mod it could be used in a CB recipe. Heaven's knows... there are enough sources for such things.

As for the ration pack: My understanding is since VVA uses COBL's dinnerplate and the new script for it looks at the item / potion weight of any item on the 'eat' leveled lists that this should translate to the ration pack system just fine. Or in other words: COBL adds the food value based on item or potion weight. (you'll have to stop using a weight reducer for potions and items that are food related in order to get the benefits and that seems to be the only major drawback). So using the patch will allow VVA to "see" these new foods and use them.

Hey dewshine, sorry for having not replied to this sooner.

I've never poked around in the "Extra Content" packaged with V&V. I've not used any of them, and there was never any suggestions/requests to do anything with them before now.

If you are still interested in this, I'll take a look inside it and see how it works.

hmmmm.... It's been a while, but if I remember correctly, the COBL "calorie value" is hard coded in the scripts, so modifying the weight of, say for instance, Venison from a weight of 2 to a weight of 0.5 wouldn't have any effect on how many ration packs you would derive from it.

I'm not positive about this... I'll have to look at the "menu" scripts to make sure.

Oh, and BTW, the COBL Filter plugin is flawless... Thanks alot for putting it together.

Ok... I've been doing some pen and paper work and have come up with a strategy. I'll put my ideas up here. Mostly because posting them will commit me to them, and make me more motivated to get to work on them. Also, I would appreciate some feedback on this stuff. These are still just ideas, and I really depend on other people's perspective when putting these things together.

Here are some of the ideas I've come up with:
First, I want to fix some little things that simply need fixing... Like the double well behind Discount Spells in the IC Market District, the items in the Vendor chests at Three Brother's (Was just doing some testing, and forgot to move them to a separate container... I'm surprised noone has had problems with this so far.), tweaking the weights and prices of the Camping Gear... The items are too heavy, and too expensive in my opinion.

My idea for weight/cost of the camping gear is:
Camp Chest: weighs 8, costs 150 / new weight 3, new cost 75
Camp Rain Barrel: weighs 5, costs 50 / new weight 10, new cost 50
Camp Stool: weighs 5, costs 100 / new weight 3, new cost 50
Camp Tent: weighs 15, costs 250 / new weight 10, new cost 100
Campfire: weighs 10, costs 150 / new weight 5, new cost 50
Camping Table: weighs 15, costs 100 / new weight 15, new cost 50
And the weight of Waterskins: empty = 1, one third full = 2, two thirds full = 3, and full = 4.

Also, I need to get the COBL water source scripts added into the mod. I have them working, they just aren't integrated completely yet.

My idea for implementing naps:
- Must be sitting down.
- Regenerates some fatigue.
- DOES NOT trigger the Level Up menu.

I'd like to set it up so when you hit your "Wait" key, the script checks to see if you are sitting down.
If you are sitting down, you'll get a message box asking if you want to take a nap.
If you answer "Yes", another message box will come up with a choice of durations for the nap:
- 1 hour (regen 10% of your base fatigue)
- 2 hours (regen 15% of your base fatigue)
- 3 hours (regen 20% of your base fatigue)
If you answer "No", the script will pass control on to the wait menu.

The key press intercept will require OBSE... But I've already put OBSE in the requirements for running the mod, so this really isn't an issue.

(You can only take a nap when you have less than 30% of your base fatigue remaining.)
(You can only take a nap once every six hours.)

New Eat/Sleep cycle:
When you wake from sleeping for six hours or more, your meal option will be "Eat Breakfast". This will continue to give you the "Sleep's Reprive" Fatigue boost. After breakfast has digested, and you are ready for your next meal, you'll select "Eat a Meal" just like always, except I'll do away with the "Next Meal: Whatever" icon. You will be able to eat as many meals as possible so long as your fatigue is high enough. The duration of the meal's digestion will remain the same.

The technical details:
Currently, "The Day's Labor" damages your Fatigue by 2 per second. While digesting a meal, you get a Restore Fatigue of 2. That means if you don't run or engage in combat, you don't lose any fatigue while digesting a meal.

I plan to increase the amount of your Base Fatigue, and change "The Day's Labor" to damage Fatigue by 3, and keep digestion at restore Fatigue by 2. That means even while standing still and idle, you will be losing 1 point of fatigue per second.
I will increase the Base Fatigue to a value that will last about 24 hours if you keep a meal equipped and do not supplement your Fatigue in any way.

Now, the hypothetical:
For a penalty for going too long without sleep, I'd like to use the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16323 by qzilla to cause the screen to blur.
If you have not slept for 24 hours, blur 25%.
If you have not slept for 36 hours, blur 50%.
If you have not slept for 48 hours, blur 75%... hopefully making it very difficult to see what you're doing
You will still pass out if you run out of fatigue.

Ok, that's what I have so far....
Let me know if you see any flaws or think you can improve my ideas.

EDIT:
Here are some screen shots of the blur settings I could use:
http://www.tesnexus.com/imageshare/images/170821-1232368827.jpg
http://www.tesnexus.com/imageshare/images/170821-1232368936.jpg
http://www.tesnexus.com/imageshare/images/170821-1232368992.jpg
http://www.tesnexus.com/imageshare/images/170821-1232369046.jpg - Unlikely anyone will get this far.
http://www.tesnexus.com/imageshare/images/170821-1232369104.jpg - Basicly un-playable...

Like the idea of implementing naps - How do you hope to accomplish the Must be Sitting Down prerequisite in wilderness cells ? ( Note that I haven't used this mod ) It would be nice to add a feature which lets the player sit down on the ground, or anywhere ( the ground sounds more aesthetic ), coupled with a few good animations.

Secondly, I love the fullscreen blur effect :wub: Really owns up to the physics of the human body's metabolism. Questions - Will the screeneffects added by this mod overlap with those added by other mods ( for instance, enhanced weather ) ? A more pressing concern, if the player is using ScreenEffect's optional ESP ( which lets the player add/remove effects during the course of play ) and reduces the full screen blur using the Matrix of Perception ( SE's activator ) during sleepless cycle, will it remove the effect V&V adds ?

[edit]
Another concern of mine - I remember using a version of V&V which added scripted effects to all food items ( to add rations ). This was a pressing compatibility issue then and forced me to remove the mod after a bad issue. Will this be prevalent in the next release ( or was it removed earlier ) ? To workaround this issue, you could use OBSE's Magic Functions and add the script effect during game-time ( after a each game restart as well to account for the possibility of a new mod being added ).

Ah-ha... good catch, shadeMe. Although the Camping Gear includes a portable stool, you would have to remember to tote it around with you to use it. I like the idea of being able to "sit down" on the ground... Maybe a pillow could be used as a maker / activator? I'd need some help with the animation though, as I have discovered I am completely inept at messing with them.


As far as I can tell, the "last mod loaded wins" rule applies to Screen Effects as well, to an extent. I believe it works something like this:

Scenario 1:
ModA modifies the Brightness effect.
ModB modifies the Shadows effect.
Result: Both effects display without conflict.

Scenario 2:
ModA modifies the Brightness effect by 20%.
ModB modifies the Brightness effect by 50%.
Result: The Brightness effect is set to 50% in game.

So, if you load the ScreenControl.esp after the V&VA.esp files in your load order, and change the blur settings.... you will override whatever blur setting V&VA is trying to use.

If I am wrong about this, someone please correct me. I'm still experimenting with the Screen Effects plugin, and learning as I go.


This issue was fixed in V&V Advanced. With the help of COBL's Dinner Plate, I was able to restore the first Alchemical effect to food items and still be able to use them to create ration packs. In addition to that, COBL makes it much, MUCH easier to include food items added by other mods in the creation of V&VA's ration packs... And, if using a BashPatch, and merging dewshine's COBL Filter Plugin, you get all the food items added to the menu without having to install the related mods! COBL rawks :rock:

I just received a PM from a V&VA user on the Nexus forum. Here is the meat of the message:



This "passing out when waiting" issue has been reported alot lately, but I have been unable to recreate it in my game. This user states they are using COBL 1.55. I am currently running COBL 1.54. Is anyone else running COBL 1.55 and experiencing this issue???

I'm off now to upgrade my version of COBL, and do some testing in my game. If the issue lies within the bowels of the creature we lovingly know as COBL, I may be able to find the cause and fix it.

Stay tuned!

EDIT:
Initial tests with COBL 1.55 have failed to recreate the "passing out when waiting" issue. I waited for 2 hours, I didn't pass out. I waited for 4 hours, I didn't pass out. I waited for 2 hours, my meal counter / digestion ran out, got the "stomach growl" sound, lost a little fatigue, but still.... I didn't pass out.

Anyone have any clues as to where the cause of this issue lies? ANY help would be greatly appreciated!!!

Hi everyone,

Ssenkrad requested that I post my bug report here rather than PM'ing him on TesNexus. Here's are my problem with VimVigor Advance:


------------------
My only issue with it is that my version of COBL (1.55) is breaking one aspect of your mod (at least, I belive it's COBL, I'm no expert modder). Basicly wait and short sleep will totally kill your food points and fatigue, knocking you out instantly. It bahaves just like if you were to wait for any ammount of time during the chargen tutorial sequence- instant knockout. Only this is happening to me at all times.

The reason I think it's COBL, and not my load order or conflicts or bad mod initiialization is because I've done extensive testing to try to work this problem out my self. For example, removing the COBL esm dependency from VVadvance.esp and disabling COBLmain.esm fixes this problem, but it goes without saying that this is no solution since I'll lose the food rations preparation functionality. Also, running the old FFVV.esp with COBLmain.esm loaded, reproduces this bug in FFVV.

As always to rule out mod conflicts as a cause I tested the above configuration by disabling all of my other mods leaving only COBLmain.Esm, VVadvance.ESP and VVadvance.ESP. Same with the FFVV_Overhauled.ESP. In both cases the bug only appears when COBLMain.ESM is active.

------------------

However Ssenkrad, after reading your last reply to me about your inability to replicate the bug with a V1.55 COBOL on your system, I did some further testing. And found out that if I started a completely new game, finish the tutorial quest, and get out of the sewers, the wait bug didn't happened! Without even having to disable any of my numerous mods.

So now I'm completely confused. It seems something about my save game is somewhat responsible for this. I don't know if this is the main cause of the bug or only partly to blame. I'm quite certain I installed the mod correctly. I must've repeated the steps methodicly many dozens of times in my attempts to fix this bug in the last few weeks. I don't know if save file manipulation with WryeBash migh be the cause- I've repaired A-Bomb a couple of times on my main 1200hrs gamesave - But havent yet deleted any nullrefs.

I've already checked all of my loadlist compatable savegames, from the oldest 300hrs game time to the latest 1200hrs gametime. And each one is affected by the wait bug. Only a completely new game is free of it.

Frankly I don't know what to make of any of these.

Thanks for you reply Ssenkrad. This is still an awesome mod, and your additions are nothing short of bliss. I just can't stop my self from getting bothered by this mean little bug.

Az.



Requested Load Order:

------------------------------------------------

Masters for: autosave.ess00  Oblivion.esm01  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm02  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm03  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.55]04  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]05  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.6beta3]06  TamrielTravellers.esm  [Version 1.37a]07  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9a7]08  CM Partners.esm09  DremoraCompanion.esm0A  bookplacing.esm  [Version 1]0B  VVAdvanced.esm  [Version 1.00]0C  Toaster Says Share v3.esm0D  HorseCombatMaster.esm0E  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.0]0F  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]10  DLCShiveringIsles.esp11  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp12  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp13  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp14  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]15  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]16  DLCHorseArmor.esp17  DLCOrrery.esp18  DLCVileLair.esp19  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp1A  DLCSpellTomes.esp1B  DLCThievesDen.esp1C  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]1D  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]1E  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]1F  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]20  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]21  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]22  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.4]23  Living Economy.esp24  ExnemRuneskulls.esp25  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.55]26  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.32]27  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.41]++  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]28  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp29  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2A  C&C - The Blackwood Company.esp2B  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]2C  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2D  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_SpawnRatesReduced.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_LessRats.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2E  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.6Beta3]2F  Mart's Monster Mod - Zombies for Body Meshes.esp  [Version 3.6Beta3]30  Mart's Monster Mod - Vindasel.esp  [Version 3.6Beta3]31  Mart's Monster Mod - Foxes.esp  [Version 3.6Beta3]32  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.6Beta3]++  TamrielTravellerAdvScript.esp  [Version 1.37a]33  TamrielTravellers4OOO.esp  [Version 1.37a]++  TamrielTravellersItemsNPC.esp  [Version 1.37a]34  TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp  [Version 1.37a]++  TamrielTravellersItemsVendor.esp  [Version 1.37a]++  FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FriendlierFactions.esp  [Version 0.9.9]35  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp36  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]37  Knights.esp38  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]39  Ruin.esp  [Version 2.50]3A  Mighty Umbra.esp3B  Ungarion1TheWelkyndSword.esp  [Version 1.4]3C  Blood&Mud.esp++  FCOM_MightyUmbra.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3D  FCOM_Blood&Mud.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_WelkyndSwordBlood&Mud.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3E  My_FrostCrag_Community.esp3F  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]40  MidasSpells2.esp41  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]42  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]43  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]44  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]45  Oblivion.esp46  Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp47  300_Combat Sounds.esp48  Symphony of Violence.esp49  Atmospheric Oblivion.esp4A  DEJ_realSizeDungeonRats.esp4B  DEJ_realSizeCityRats.esp4C  DEJ_realSizeWildrenessRats.esp4D  Oblivion Cats v0.22b.esp4E  Rainbows.esp4F  AliveWaters.esp50  AliveWaters - Koi Addon.esp51  AliveWaters - Slaughterfish Addon.esp52  OOO-WaterFish.esp  [Version 1.34]53  300_Lore Dialogue.esp54  Book Jackets Oblivion - BP.esp55  FirstEditionGuidetotheEmpire_X.esp56  DaggerfallBooks_X.esp57  Battlespire Books_X.esp58  MorrowindBooks_X.esp59  Alchemy Books.esp5A  Alchemy Assistant.esp5B  Dancer_Undress0_6-10194.esp5C  MM_TextLocks.esp5D  More_Vegetables.esp5E  VVAdvanced.esp  [Version 1.00]5F  VVAdvanced-SI.esp  [Version 1.00]60  P1DanywhereSittable.esp61  Update My Statue.esp  [Version 1.30]62  MapMarkers.esp63  Expanded Hotkeys and Spell Delete v1.0.esp64  Expanded Hotkeys Brief Equip Message.esp65  SentientWeapon.esp  [Version 3]66  The Soul of Ilithiel.esp67  FF_Horse_Whistle.esp68  T.I.E4MODS.esp  [Version 0.1]69  SentientWeapon - 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http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5243 uses something similar to accomplish that. Might want to look into that ( I think it uses valilla animations - but not sure if it supports sitting on the ground )


I doubt that, as the screen effects are applied while in game ( not loaded at it's beginning like other mods ). But how did you establish that theory ?


That's wonderful :celebrate: Yet another reason to use Cobl

Thank you for posting Az. There are some great minds here, hopefully posting this info for them to look at will trigger a breakthrough.

First, I looked at your load order. There are a few mods there I don't recognize... specifically #45: Oblivion.esp (What is this?).

Next, did you, by chance, use an alternate start mod when creating your 1200hrs profile? I've gone back through the thread looking for relevant information, and here is some good research done others that I feel needs to be looked into further:





And this one is of particular interest... especially the info about "setinchargen 0"


And a post I seem to have overlooked during my mental absence from modding lately (this one also indicates that the issue may be somewhere within the clockwork mechanism of COBL and V&VA):


Now, I feel the issue is caused by "something somewhere" messing with the timescale setting. There is a check in V&VA's scripts that watches for changes to the Timescale variable. When the Timescale value is changed, the check triggers V&VA to run another pass through the initialization loop so that the player's Base Fatigue is updated to reflect the new Timescale setting. This will sometimes cause the player to pass out, and I have been able to recreate this "pass-out" in my game, but only sporadicly. When I change the Timescale value in my game, I sometimes pass out, and sometimes do not. It is a bug I am aware of, and need to look more closely at.

Also, I want to look at / research the "setinchargen" flag some more. It is entirely possible that the issue involves a combination of the "setinchargen" flag and the "change Timescale trigger" from V&VA's scripts. But I'm at a loss when adding the influence COBL has on the issue. What could COBL possibly be doing that would "stir the stinkpot" even more?

This is definitely something that takes priority one for getting fixed. It is an absolute game breaker, and I am intent on solving it.

I want to thank everyone who has spent their own personal time researching this matter, and provided very valuable data to me. You were not asked to do that, which makes it quite the generous contribution to the development of this mod. You are appreciated.

Downloaded the mod, and will look at it later. As the post above indicates, I have a rather urgent matter to attend to first. Thank you for the link.

umm, it was purely speculation :shrug:

I am using Enhanced Weather's "Enhanced Nights" feature, which also uses the Screen Effects plugin to make nights darker. When testing the Blur effect, I loaded ScreenControls.esp after EnhancedWeather.esp. I noticed when I used the "Matrix of Perception" control from ScreenControls, the values that I set in my EnhancedWeather.ini file would be over-ridden by the values I set in the "Matrix of Perception" control panel. I assumed the load order played a part in what setting a particular effect used.

I'll look at it some more.

That's just a copy of the Shiverring Isles.esp renamed to Oblivion.esp to match the FraNewItems.bsa renamed to Oblivion-FraNewItems.bsa. Supposed to be a safety net to keep Frans bsa file loaded at all times. I'm not even gonna pretend to say I completely understand why it's needed, but Dev-Akm says to do it, I do it. LOL



No dude, that game profile was my first, the one made during the magical time in ages past when Oblivion was first installed.




Just hearing you say this has brought my spirits back up. I've practicly stopped playing the game these last week or so for any lenght of time since I came across this bug. I keep finding my self quiting the game, loading up the CS or Tes4View and loading up COBL and VVadvance, hoping to spot something, anything. But as I've said, I'm no expert. This is way over my ability to fix. You can tell how desperate I got by the mere fact that I tried contacting you directly .

So I'm behind you all the way on this. I'm not skilled enough to be of any true help, but if I uncover any new insights on this problem, I'll post it here.

Thanks dude,
Az.

--------
EDIT:

Boy now I really do feel a bit stupid. I didn't carefully read that "setinchargen 0" post you quoted above before I replied. Well guess what, that fixed the bug for me. Loaded my latest savegame, entered that command, and bamm no more passing out on wait. While I'm very happy this does brings up another question: how did that flag get set to "1"?

Did COBL modify the flag when I loaded it into my game? There must be some COBL connection here since both VVA and FFVV is bug free when run without it, which I'm guessing is because the flag isnt set to 1 without COBL. And the reason the bug got fixed when I tried going thourgh the Chargen sequence is because I run across the trigger that disables the flag. That's the only explaination I can think off that would explain this strange goings on.

Anyway.............WOOOHOOOOOOOOO!!!!! My VVA is bug free now .

Still the issue remains and you still have to kill it properly once and for all, So I really hope any of my info will help you make sure your mod will be bugfree for everyone.

Thanks man,
Az
-------------------

Here is the reply I just recieved from haama in the COBL thread reguarding this issue:



There is the connection. This issue will hopefully be resolved with the next COBL update! :celebration:

In the mean time, anyone experiencing the "passing out when waiting" bug should open the console and enter: setinchargen 0

Thank you wmj for exposing this obscure variable and it's role in causing this bug.

Edit:
And thank you Az, for pointing out a COBL relationship with the bug. And also for sticking with me long enough to resolve the issue. Your input helped greatly.

You're the one I should be thanking. Had you not replied to my initial PM I would still be pulling my hair out over this problem. But now not only does VVA works like a charm, disabling the variable also fixed another mod I'm using (Mmmpld's P1DSeeYouSleep) that also stopped functioning when I install COBL.

So once again, great mod, great new features and great user support.

Az.

Just saw the post in my ScreenEffects thread (I don't check it too often), so I thought I'd jump in here to offer information:

1) yes you can use it, that's what it's there for, just don't *include* the files with your mod.

2) screen effects combines settings from all mods that use it -- there is no 'last mod loaded wins' effect. Some of the settings add together and some multiply together, which do what is explained in the readme.

3) to answer the specific question about ScreenControls vs the blur effect applied via this mod, yes, ScreenControls would allow the user to cancel out the blur from this mod (or other mods). This is probably the desirable situation because if something malfunctions with a mod the user can undo/cancel the visual changes from that mod without having to revert to an earlier save game.

If you have any questions the best way to get in contact with me is via PM as I don't check my RELz threads too often (there's a lot of them =/).

Well, its been about a month since my last post (A MONTH?!! :shocking: ), so I thought I'd post an update on my progress.

I've gotten quite a few minor things taken care of, such as:
- Fixed the double well in the IC-Market Dist.
- Lowered the camping gear's weight and cost
- You can buy the camping gear in all the cities now
- COBL Water Source scripts are finished, water sources added by other COBL aware mods are now functional (House & Village mods, etc.)

Vim & Vigor Advanced is basically eviscerated at the moment. I'm breaking the scripts down into modules, and doing some streamlining. It's going to make the mod allot easier for me to handle, and add features later on.

I've changed my mind about using the Screen Effects plugin. I'm really hesitant about adding another requirement to the mod. Instead, I'll punish you with stat penalties for going too long without sleep.

Here is my plan:
Stage 1 of exhaustion (> 24 hours without sleep)
-2 to Agility
-2 to Speed
-2 to Strength
-10 to Luck
-20% to Magicka

Stage 2 of exhaustion (> 36 hours without sleep)
-2 to Agility (-4)
-2 to Speed (-4)
-2 to Strength (-4)
-10 to Luck (-20)
-20% to Magicka (-40%)

Stage 3 of exhaustion (> 48 hours without sleep)
-3 to Agility (-7)
-3 to Speed (-7)
-3 to Strength (-7)
-15 to Luck (-35)
-20% to Magicka (-60%)
Weakness to Disease 50%
Weakness to Poison 50%
Weakness to Magick 50%
Weakness to Normal Weapons 50%

Stage 4 of exhaustion (> 60 hours without sleep)
-3 to Agility (-10)
-3 to Speed (-10)
-3 to Strength (-10)
-15 to Luck (-50)
-20% to Magicka (-80%)
Weakness to Disease 50% (100%)
Weakness to Poison 50% (100%)
Weakness to Magick 50% (100%)
Weakness to Normal Weapons 50% (100%)
Damage Fatigue +1 (Increased rate of Fatigue drain)

I think I'm going to back out of the "Take a Nap" idea. I just cant get it to jive with the exhaustion system. Besides, being able to extend yourself beyond the 3 meal limit kind of does away with the initial desire to be able to take a nap.

As always, feedback is welcomed (and encouraged).

I wasn't aware there was a bug here.

I've began rebuilding the scripts a stage at a time. I've got the mod initializing properly, and the merchant chests working the way I want them to. I'm hacking out the new fatigue system as I type this...

I've changed the way the mod starts (you now need to purchase the Eating Utensils to activate Vim & Vigor), hopefully this will solve 99.9% of the problems happening in the CharGen stage. I'll keep my eyes open for whatever may be causing the race change bug.

Thanks for alerting me to this issue.

Hey Ssenkrad, I wasn't aware that you were doing a major update.

I have one little recommendation, which came up in another survival mod discussion:
Instead of a fixed point number attribute penalty, perhaps you would consider a percentage penalty. The whole reason for this is that survival mods are generally much harsher on lower level players and hardly have an impact on upper level players. A percentage increase allows for moderate impacts across all levels.

For instance in the above Stage 1 example, if you used a 10% attribute penalty:
If a lower level character had 30 points for each, they would be penalized 3 points.
And if a high level character had 60 points for each, they would be penalized 6 points.
This keeps the penalty equal, no matter what level you are at.
(Although higher level characters can still afford a 10% penalty more than a low level character - so it's not a perfect solution, but it's better than a straight point penalty.)

Great idea...
I hadn't thought of the fact that the penalties hit the lower level player harder than the higher level player.

This should be pretty easy to get worked in. Thanks for the tip Arwen!