I've played as a few characters before on Skyrim, but recently I started a "proper" game that I intend to play a good deal as an Orc. I am the typical Orc character - heavy armour, smithing, one handed but with a bit of alchemy thrown in there for fun too. I've been strolling through the story and a few side quests and now I'm starting to realise it's about time I joined in on the civil war in Skyrim. But what side to choose?

All of my previous characters have seen me choose the side of the Empire. The Stormcloaks give the impression of racist bigots who would put Nords first above every other race, even trampling over other people just to put Nord needs first. The Empire is much more cosmopolitan, what with it encompassing numerous areas and peoples. But after exploring around Windhelm and hearing what people have to say, I am starting to lean towards the Stormcloaks...

• The Empire gave up in the fight against the Aldmeri dominion and as a result Talos worship was banned, due to a human becoming divine. The elves didn't like this as you know and reduced the Nine Divines to Eight. The Stormcloaks are fighting to change that; the people should be free to worship who they please.
  
• The Empire gives an impression of a disorganised rabble. They lost Ulfric Stormcloak after capturing him, they've lost a lot of the provinces and an uprising of Nords in a part of Skyrim is a serious headache for them. Perhaps it is time for change.
  
• Does the Empire really consider the needs of the Nords? Would they ever get their independence should things be left up to the Empire if they wanted it?

It's just a shame that the Stormcloak methods are so brutish. Murdering the high king. Intimidating other races. It seems other people fear the rise of the Stormcloaks but now I understand their plight.

What is your opinion on the civil war?

Try to delve into the sides of the Stormcloaks, not every single one of them is racist and I believe they are the best side.

Go to Windhelm, a typical Pro-Imperial would say that the Elves and Argonians are ostracized, However this is not the case, Dark Elves don't even need to face taxation and do nothing to improve their situation, they are also allowed to buy property without any requirement and as said by some Elves in Windhelm: Nords respect hard work and honor. The Dark Elves only complain and don't even want to help in the War.

And with the Argonians, there is no space in the city and they are cat and dog with the elves so...yeah

I fight for the Stormcloaks for the preservation of the human race and Mundus itself. The Empire has become pawns/enablers of the Thalmor.

They're not really trying to do that.

They're trying to play the long game too. The problem is, that's what the Thalmor do, and they're much better at it.

I give them points for trying, but then I take them away for failing and becoming everything they're supposed to be fighting against.

Oh god, public education strikes again!
You can be a nationalist without being a racist.

The Empire is not giving up
They`re recovering

and playing for the Short run is not really helpful either when you can't plan for an enemy that is not really attacking you head-on, but through deception and whittling down support.

When you fight an enemy that relies on subterfuge and political manuevering, putting pressure on them is the only way to fight them.

Giving them all the intel they need isn't helping.

Depends on u, both sides have strengths and weaknesses. But just to give a heads up, neither side is actually racist.

Nords are a warrior race, Elves use their head and will not get into a direct fight unless they have no choice. As long as they can ambush the Nords/Empire, strength and numbers mean nothing. Neither does "putting pressure on them."

Now you're getting it.

reasons why i never side with the empire:

1. they were going to execute me with little to no evidence that i was actually a rebel, just that i was in the wrong place at the wrong time

2. they were torturing stormcloaks in helgen, and have numerous other torture chambers set up around skyrim, there is no honor in torture

3. they executed roggvir in solitude when he in fact did absolutely nothing wrong, ulfric made a rightful challenge to the throne that torygg accepted, no murder was committed, and yet roggvir was held accountable

4. the imperial's support the thalmor's kidnapping of skyrim citizens. thats evidenced by the kidnapping of the grey-mane boy, read the documents in the keep, the thalmor were holding him on imperial orders....

so however you want to look at it, the stormcloaks may not be the good guys, but they are definitely the lesser of the two evils

Join the Stormcloaks. We have cool titles, a spine and bears on our heads. All these things the imperials lack.

Read the rest of it. "putting pressure on them" is the same as just charging in and fighting them. The Thalmor WILL NOT do that straight on this time. Most like the only way to get them to fight back the NORD way is to take over the other AD territories and force them to fight to defend Alinor/Summerset Isles.

That wont happen unless the nords find out their battle plans and stoop down to their level, which is a lot harder for Nord, who are basically honor bound to fight like a warrior and not a thief, than it would be for the empire to do so.

Just a heads up, the whole Stormcloak rebellion is actually just a Thalmor plot. IIRC the Thalmor tricked Ulfric during earlier interrogation, leading him to believe he had given away important information, and were in contact with him for some time. In fact they may have even let him escape on purpose in an earlier capture. Ulfric has gone rougue as far as we know during the events of Skyrim and is refusing to co-operate with Thalmor agents. However, the rebellion still works in the Thalmor favor as it weakens the Empire, which alludes to a planned attack on the Empire in the future. As well as this if Tullius's remarks about not wanting to follow Thalmor are to be believed, the Empire could well be planning to stage an uprising against the Thalmor, and judging by their soldiers in game, they seem to be far better equipped and trained for such a thing rather than Stormcloaks who seemed disorganized. Aside from a far better military, they are far more likely to garner support from other provenices if such a thing was attempted, rather than some no-name rebels. Overall anolyzing all the evidence put before us, it would seem the Empire is a better choice, but if you really like the Stormcloaks, by all means support them.

Some Nords are racist. Some aren't. Riften, though Stormcloak-sympathetic, is a bastion of tolerance. Argonians and Dunmer and Nords live and work side by side.

My beef with the Stormcloaks is that Ulfric is considered by the Thalmor to be an asset. Since I'm opposed to the Thalmor, I can't support Ulfric.

Imagine this: suppose Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union had existed back in the 1770's, and been eyeing the British Empire for devouring... would the Revolutionary War have been a good idea? Certainly the colonies' cause was just (taxation without representation, quartering, freedom of speech/religion), but if it meant giving the world over to an evil tyranny?

And besides, the Talos-worship issue is one that Ulfric created. Until he made a big thing of it, the Imperials and Nords simply did it in secret and the Legion ignored it (or did it themselves).

Ulfroc talks pretty talk about men he's held in his arms dying, but I think that for him, this war is more about his ambitions than his principles.

For more information about why I support the Empire, just talk to Sybil Stentor, Solitude's court wizard.

No it isn't. Read the correspondence in the Embassy.
Ulfric was initially a useful goad against the Empire but his success is greatly feared by the Thalmor.
Yeah, wrong. Read the terms of the WGC. Research Altmer creation mythology.

Except for the part where the Empire fully supported and encouraged his actions, and then threw him to the wolves when the Thalmor found out.

The cards at this point are in the empire's hands. They can fight the Thalmor on their turf, the Thalmor way (deception, Ambushes, etc.) Whereas an independent Skyrim would be more likely to Charge in first then let the "Weaker" races take care of the rest, if the Nords leave any or even choose to ally with the other provinces.

The Empire didn't have a choice. The alternative was to continue the war, which would almost definitely result I defeat and end up in an Empire ruled by the Dominion.


Well. I doubt the Stormcloaks would have fared much better if the dragon attacked Windhelm! And it wasn't just any dragon, it was Alduin himself. Even the most organised military force wouldn't have stood a chance.
It's not like they lost their territory on the battlefield, either - it's simply that the Jarls in the east of Skyrim support Ulfric. No doubt they knew that the White-Gold Condordat would cause some issues, at any rate.


A united Empire is best for everybody. Skyrim benefits from trade, secure borders and extra soldiers. Not to mention that three provinces have a much better chance of defeating the Dominion than one province. But what do you mean, 'the needs of Nords'? The Empire has always provided what Skyrim needed. Skyrim has always been a part of the Empire.

My orc who values traditions above all else, sided with the Stormcloaks. She saw that their fight and their traditions were not so different from her own.

An orc will die fighting for what they believe in before talking about peace and giving up their belief.

And the cloaks don't care she is an orc. She is a valued member of the team.

You do know that the Thalmor threatened with another war over it, right? OR, do you have a "source" that tells you that The thalmor found out because they were told that Ulfric was the cause of the open talos worship (No matter who made the offer/demand in the first place, Ulfric agreed to it, so he is as much at fault for getting arrested as the empire is).

Wrong again. The Empire conceded to the WGC because they didn't have the confidence to pursue the conflict. They are weak today for the same reason Britain was weak after Chamberlain came home proclaiming "peace in our time".

Correct. The point I'm making is that the Empire is as much responsible as Ulfric.