When we first encountered dwemer machinery and architecture, I simply assumed that they were far more advanced than any race around at that time.

However with recent insights into the snow elves


It seems that they were not the only elven race with by far superior technology

This begs the question, what were the altmer and bosmer doing?

Seeing as their fellow mer were able to create such wonders, why haven't they?

Unless, the summerset isles and valenwood are similarly technologically advanced. Although surely in that case the empire would have made use of such technology when they were part of the empire.


What are your thoughts on this?

The only elven land that I'm familiar with is Morrowind, and the Velothi architecture therein.

How is that Technology? That's magic. The Bosmer having giant moving tree cities and can blend in with trees almost perfectly and Altmer having shimmering glass cities that are 'seemingly made of dragonfly wings' or something along those lines.

Altmers have possibly had the largest impact on Tamrielic culture than any other race.

By technology in reference to the snow elves I meant their manipulation of magic to create these unique features. And although populated by the bosmer the walking trees, as far as I am aware, are a natural phenomenon, not created by the bosmer, furthermore their inborn abilities have no relevance to the technological/magical advancement of the race. Yeah the structures are cool but will they have features that are similiarly advanced, I was not simply stating that they are definitely less advanced I was merely wondering whether they were, and how their technology differs, and also if there was some form of technology (magical or otherwise) that was as advanced as the dwemer or falmer, why didn't the imperial empire make use of it while the summerset isles were part of the empire?


Architecturally (imperial city etc.) and politically/cultually (aldmeri dominion + thalmor) but technologically? I can't really think of any ways they have contributed in this sense, but I may be wrong, are there any you could think of?

There's not much that I can put 100% faith into, but I'm guessing that since their influence is so high there are bound to be entries where Altmer tech eventually became widespread. The Summerset Isles are supposed to be a beautiful place full of amazing architecture, I'd hope that the next TES game takes place there, as Cyrodil or Skyrim never really encaptured that world of mystique that Morrowind gave me.

Even though i don't like the Altmer too much (in general i mean, some individuals i like) i want to visit summerset isles badly, i can imagine it would be very Asian-inspired...

Eh, I just envision Eversong and Silvermoon City from World of Warcraft.
Akaviri seem to have the more asian flare.

Seems as if the Dwemer and Snow Elves were #1 and #2 when it came to magic and architecture.
Possibly its due to the fact they lived close with one another for so very long that they could learn from eachother.

I assume they WERE friendly at one point and did work together until the Nords invaded.
When that happened the Dwemer betrayed their friendship and gained new slaves.
This is how the DLC explained some things, even calling the falmer "The Betrayed".

Youve got it all wrong.
Youre assuming some sort of intellectual progress, diapause or regress, but that is not how things work in Tamriel.

First off, there really is no such thing as technological advancement on a world where healing spells and fireballs take care of that.
Secondly, apart from high magic the world of Tamriel seems late Renaissance since at least the second era in everything else.

What sort of advancement there is is mostly of a magical nature. Imperial Mananauts and Altmer Sunbirds have reached the moons, only they went there via magic and not technology. They did not need spacesuits, as in TES air is the gift of Kyne that emanates from her plane(t) and pervades the entirety of Creation.

When it comes to magical prowess, they are advanced. There is a saying that goes that any sufficiently high level magic is indistinguishable from science and that goes here. We cannot create artificial pocket dimensions to house a college in, but they can and have through magic.

It is a mistake to see lacunes in the gameworld and assume they mean something is not there.
For instance, Morrowind did not sport any mill at all nor any way to let vampires drink blood.
Yet there were bread and vampires.

Just because something does not exist in game does not mean it does not exist in lore.
Such as crossbows, spears, windmills etc. Its not that they were just invented or forgotten, its that you dont see them in the representation of the world that is the game.

Think of Alinor as typical http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrystalSpiresAndTogas. But with magic, not science.

The question also that brings to my mind, is how they were deafted by a bunch of barbaric nords, The only advantage i know they had were the Thum and numbers, did they Zerg rush them?

Yes, I'd assume numbers.

I think you may also have slightly missed the point, despite being an entirely separate area, magic still works in many ways like the science/technology that we are used to. In the sense that scholars/mages work on the knowledge gathered by predecessors to enhance and expand their knowledge. Therefore it can be said that over time magical knowledge, and so the use of magic in architecture and other aspects of civilisations would be developed, refined and increased. For example, the falmer could have hyperthetically created much more advanced portal systems were they still around as over the thousands of years they would have been able to find flaws in the previously used spells or found a more efficient magical method.

From this I am deriving the statement that the utilisation of magic by both the falmer and the dwemer seems to be much more complex/advanced than that of current day races despite the thousands of years that the current races have had to improve their knowledge of magic, not due to a rise in intelligence but rather due to generation upon generation of different views and stances towards the magical discoveries of their predecessors allowing for different methods of utilising the knowledge for more efficient/effective effects. This doesn't even take into account the discoveries of certain locations/natural phenomenons that would have expanded these cultures' understanding of certain magical principles.


I am therefore stating that given the advantage of time that these races have had they seem to still be far behind the capabilities of these other, closely-related, races. This leads to the conclusion of one of three things

• The dwemer and falmer had a naturally higher intellectual range/a better understanding of magical principles leading to a much faster and effective use of their magical knowledge to create the things they have
  
• These races had access to certain things, or their culture allowed for the better research into certain things, leading to a faster arrival of certain discoveries that allowed for more advanced technology
  
• The other mer races do in fact have similiarly advanced technology however other provinces have not been made aware of such technology

I thought that was the Ayleids?

weren't the ayleids the ancient altmer?

actually if you read the book the aetherium wars it will go some way to explain how the dwemer were able to be defeated at some point



if you can't be bothered to read it

This is how I see it:

These days Bethesda are basically making it up as they go along according to whether they think it's cool at the time. It's the job of thefans to try to get it all to make sense in terms of lore. So anyone's opinionj is really just as valid as another as long as it is in harmony with all the available lore.

seeing as bethesda made the lore I don't think they really deserve to be criticised for expanding it.

Like Merari said, just because something isn't directly mentioned doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't part of lore/goes against lore. It could simply mean that it has not been previously relevant

No. I don't believe so. They were around at the same time as the Altmer and were two completely separate cultures, they just died out sooner because of war.

oh yeah, my bad . Well then they haven't even contributed architecturally to the rest of tamriel

A sword to the chest.

Ah, but the arena is a dangerous place and entire civilisations are wiped out at the drop of a hat.
Id have loved to meet a Kothringi.

In any case, the classic trope of ancient knowledge barely remembered is effectively averted with people like Vivec, Talos and Divayth Fyr.
Let us also not forget that during the third era the Empire Cyrodiil maintained an artificial pocket dimension to house its battlemages, the Battlespire.
Technology (or magic) far beyond what we are capable of.

Not everything is a reconstruction of powerful artifacts past, and because I find this notion of a mythical dawntime where everything was better and modern people are just rediscovering stuff to be utterly boring, I reject it.

Youre right about us not having seen what the other elves (Altmer) are capable of. They move islands seemingly at will, control weather, pierce the heavens and program the Mundus like it was wysiwg.

Both the Ayleid and the Falmer were more akin to the Altmer than any other merish race.
Most of the others are changed, cursed, or pacted into something else by divine intervention.

We see in Dawnguard that the original Falmer had much the same pantheon as the Altmer

I thought battlespire was on soul cairn and the mages simply created a permanent portal? I haven't actually played battlespire so I am probably wrong but I heard that was one of the reasons why people were excited about the introduction of soul cairn

Almost all elves share the same Pantheon. And all races worship Akatosh in some form. The only two Divines you could say are confirmed because every culture has them are Akatosh and Lorkhan.