oh those where cool games indeed. I picked the expansion up via a steam sale. well worth my 5 bucks

And that is factually unture.

Isnt that nice.
Would you mind sharing with us why the sheer definition of playing a role does not apply to an RPG?
Its all well and good to find each and every post of mine and reply to it with a one-liner that contains no meaning, Im easy like that, but dont you think the other people on this board might get tired of it?

Becuase the definition of a RPg is as follows

A role-playing game (RPG) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making or character development.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game#cite_note-Cover-0}Actions taken within many games succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.


a game based on player skill or character skill isnt what defines a RPG. Tabletop RPGs maybe, but not RPGs as a whole.

FFVII was a true RPG!

Oh I dont really care what 'the definition' is.
I hold that as soon as I am doing it, instead of the character, I am essentially out of my role.
I dont know how to pick locks, its my character that is a thief.
I dont know how to swing a sword, its my character that has a long blade skill of 75.
That is RPG, the rest is adventure hack n slash.

What makes a true rpg. Well, let`s go back to the beginning, shall we?

Question: Why were rpgs created?

Answer: To be immersed in a pseudo medieval fantasy world as another character. An alter ego.

People wanted to escape the humdrum life of the real world. They wanted to go `back` to a mythical and simpler world where (to use an old phrase) men were men and women were women. They wanted to experience a place where they could be a hero and find adventure. They wanted to pick and choose their personality, skills, abilities and even face, then walk into a fresh world to take on all manners of strange things. They wanted to be lost in the DEPTH of the fantasy.

They wanted to forget reality and get immersed into a fantasy.

Some would say, `well doesn`t Skyrim do this?`

Yes... and no.

Skyrim is an rpg because it does some of this, it is not a true RPG because it does not allow the wealth of skills or options or depth a true rpg allows.

Ignoring the real definition of a word for your own one in an attempt to insult a game?

In many places that would be considered trolling.

Perfect example of my earlier post. Merari think the gameplay must rely on character skil(more or less), whileTheVaggrrWarriorLorMakaan think this isn't necessary.

A pretty hard-core statement.

But if it is true, then I prefer the action-game direction tes is heading at, as long as they keep up with the huge and detailed worlds. I'm a pen and paper nostalgic, but I don't miss the numbers. I miss the Dungeonmaster when it comes to 'true' roleplaying. Something I would never ask for as long as TES' ai's are dumber than my tv-remoter

But in todays CRPG's, variety in character creation, responsive surroundings and some game mechanics to support my role-based choises during the game, should be essentials. If people think any of this works in Skyrim, I envy them. I think it svcks big time.

But Skyrim is a beautiful, enjoyable action-hack&slasher, and I love it for that.



True!

But it is not just nostalgia. Morrowind offered more choises in character creation and the gameworld more room for roleplaying. It was simply better. Period.

The "wealth of skills" and "depth" of a game are purely subjective qualities, they are opinions and not defining points of RPGs

And you pick one sentence out of my whole quote and respond to that?

Look at it all in context, not just the bit you biasedly want to pick on.

Not even worth responding to really.

Im not insulting anything. Youre not a priest of Bethesda and me having critique is not heresy.
I have spent a long time playing many games, and I know how I fit a game in a category.
Just because something says its 'healthy' on the packet doesnt make me believe it.
Ill check to see how many salt sugar and starch it contains.

Just as Ill check a game for what is under the hood.

Depth is not subjective when it comes to the fact that a wide variety of mechanics and options gives more depth than less of them.
This is mathematics. You can make more connections between three layers of ten points than you can with two.
Morrowind had more depth, because it had the mechanics to support that depth.
It had disposition, interacting guilds, attributes, a varied and accessible spellsystem and Mora knows what else that Skyrim simply does not possess.

+1000

I did read the enitre statement and it is half ture and half false, the false part of it hinges on the belief that I said was wrong.

Maybe you should pay more attetion to what you write and how people respond to it.


What qualifies as a wide variety? ohh wait it's Subjective

Just because you CAN have 1000000000 diffrent thigns is a game doesnt mean putting all of them in makes the game have more dpeth, it just means it has more clutter.

I approve.

Adds in anohter +1000 *thumbs up*

I contend that NOT predefining your character into a stereotypical archetype allows for more freedom (and by extension roleplaying), and those stereotypical archetypes also go waaaay back. It was a large part of the skill of character creation to pick a party (back when it was all about the parties) with as few weaknesses as possible. It was also limiting. You couldn't have, say, an orc paladin, or an elf warrior. I have even played games where you couldn't have certain race combos in a party.

Do we want limitations on what your characater can and can't be, based on alignment/race?

Imagination is the only thing needed to make an RPG. If I can tell you a story and allow you to interact with the story im telling you and live freely within my own imagination then I could essentially let you play an RPG in my own mind. Thats all that is needed, no dice rolls, no stats, no items, etc. An RPG is just that, a roleplaying experience where you can take on the role of another character and effect the enviornment around you either negatively or positively with few limitations.

apparently so becuase its more "true" to tabletop RPGs, as apparently the systems they use are the only "REAL" rpg systems.



This is a excedingly good definition.

In today's world, Roleplaying game =/= RPG. They stand for the same thing, but do not MEAN the same thing.

An RPG is defined by the dice-roll/stat/skill mechanics, not by story or choice. If those mechanics have the most important role in the gameplay, it's called an rpg. If they have an important role along with something else, it's called a something-RPG. If they play a clearly secondary role, it's a game with rpg elements. If there are no such mechanics, it's not an rpg.

Heavy rain: a game that revolves about solely choosing the way your story progresses.
League of Legends: an online arena-style game with skills,equipment and some primitive skill trees.

Guess which is commonly refered to as having rpg elements and which is never put in the same sentece with "rpg"...

Skyrim is not a true RPG. Whatever way you look at it, the stats/skills do not play a primary role in the gameplay, and customisation is very limited. It's an action RPG.
Sadly, the only true RPGs I see nowadays are MMORPGs, and most of those are of terrible quality in most parts...

The term RPG much like all other classifications of games are silly.

As time goes on each diffrent type of game will merge further and further into eachother due to hybridization. As it is now defining games is getting increaingly hard due to hybridization and it will only get more so as time goes on.

We definatly need to remove the classification system we have now and replace it.

Im a pen and paper RPGer, and i always love seeing RPG on computer games, since pen and paper RPG's clearly defined what a role playing game is, then computer games are like RPG lite, lite, lite, lite, lite, there the RPG when were not having an RPG. The closest thing is im playing a role of a character and its a game, but then that could be every computer game, theres very limited interactivity in computer games, and the fact that they remove so much from games, lots of sticking sharp things and making things into bloody red paste , but lacking on anything else.

Look at all the greif mass effects six scene caused, this country and that country bans this game, it was shadowy and lots of imagination, for all anyone knew it was shadowy blurry out of focus it could have been the loch ness monster or a log, if its going to be an RPG then it should have advlt themes, ohhhh scarey, witcher did it, and its dirty and gritey, its a bit like he must be the king because he's not covered in sh*t, in witcher you can interact with basically everyone, and enter all the buildings in town, the doors arent sealed, witcher has lots of good elements that alot of games should take on. But computer games should say not RPG, but should say this game has RPG elements in it, but not class itself as an RPG.

IDK but I've been playing them since the beginning and all I can say is that I welcome the '"dumbing down". For me it's a good thing, I don't play games to do math or spend the majority of my time in menus. I've never liked that about RPGs and that's not why I play them. Bethesda/Todd was dead on about the changes to the leveling system, kudos to them for taking a risk to change things for the better.

You must be very young. The first RPG type games date back to early 16th century and none of them ever had dice rolls, stats or items. They were stories that were told to a group of people while allowing those people to effect the world, in some cases there may have been revisions and more detail than in others. It wasn't until Napoleon came along that the first real "dice roller" game was made in effect to simulate real combat scenarios and war time strategy, this was an alteration from the original depiction of RPG's. You can argue that this helped progress roleplaying if you want, but that is entirely subjective. In reality, an RPG needs no dice rolls or pencils or paper or anything else, it simply requires imagination and a few willing players. The rules are entirely up to the group.