Yeah, Steam, the malfunctioning pile of crap! Who the hell had the smart idea to include it in Fallout: New Vegas!?

So some basics: First, I installed Fallout New Vegas. Cool, it installs. Then what the heck is this steam thing, first time I heard of it... Ok, it wants me to register online, probably some smart idea to prevent piracy probably for one or two days before the hackers figure a way around it also, but let's play along. So done. And after that every time I start the game, it takes some 10-15 seconds of the starting time to start the Steam. And even after that, when you get to play, it stays in the background, eating away processing power. Yeah, as a side note, it took me some time before I figured out you can change the keybindings to start steam community while playing, I had so much time while opening Pip-Boy while running and BANG!!! Steam Steam Steam! No, I don't want Steam, I want to play the game, I payed for the game, not for Steam! Why on earth it had to have initial in-game keybinding at shift + tab anyway?! Second most used key combination after shift + W! Bloody in-game pop-up, we all hate those!

Ye, that's just the basics, guess what the [censored] program now decided to do? It decided to be even more [censored]! And guess what happens when it decides to be so [censored] that it stops to work and doesn't even authenticate itself? Yeah, you can't play Fallout: New Vegas! I've been able to play New Vegas before and actually preferred to cut my internet while at it just because I hated that Steam crap so much, at least the program had the courtesy to have the "Start offline mode". But guess what happens next? It gets stuck in "Updating Steam..." window and after it doesn't do anything, it goes to having the option to start in offline mode again and then comes the most [censored] thing yet: It says cannot log in steam network and closes itself up, preventing you from playing! I'm like, no [censored], I never wanted you to do that anyway! Start in offline! What the hell?! It's like if you're driving a hybrid car and run out of gas and your car says "Cannot find gas, want to drive without gas using electric motor?" and you say "Yes." and then the car is like "Cannot find gas, check your fuel tank." WHAT THE HELL?! Can't find a better way to express it!

The game is awesome, don't get me wrong, it's like this shining diamond that came after the awesome game Fallout 3 that made me eventually play awesome games Fallout 1 & 2 and now this New Vegas is like all those thing put together, with feeling of Fallout 1 and 2 and gameplay of Fallout 3 and that perfect beign is Fallout: New Vegas. But that perfect beign has this unbelievably ugly parasitic cripling tumor called Steam and it would do New Vegas a huge favor to be put on operating table and have that tumor removed. Like in my case, New Vegas is currently in useless coma and from what I've read from internet, I'm not the only one. C'mon, I bought this game and didn't torrent it, thought my karma would be good enough to have a working package?

Thanks for reading.

Now I am wondering, why would you want to walk + open pip-boy at the same time?

The rest of your post... Well I can't really take it serious.

Seriously what is the fuzz with some people and Steam?
Start login and update Steam if needed, check if there is an update for Fallout, put Steam in off-line mode if you want and enjoy the game.
"It is eating away processing power" Well if that little crumb of processing power that Steam uses is a problem for you, then I wonder what scrapyard your PC is from.
If you can play games normal, then you can miss that little crumb.
There are enough options in Steam and I like how easy it is to make backups of my (updated) games with it.
Another thing I like is the auto-update feature.
You will know there is a patch the minute it is available, you don't have to search the web for the patch, you will always know it is from a legit source and it has fast servers to download it from.
Want a game on another PC? Install Steam, install your backup, update and done.
You don't even have to worry about breaking or loosing a game disk anymore. Just download the game again with your account.
I would really like to hear a valid argument against Steam from all of the Steam-haters.
It isn't huge, it doesn't eat away big chunks of your PC, it ain't a virus, it ain't big spy-ware and it has a lot of options to help people.

I can't get NV to load unless I have started Steam first. If I try to start NV without first opening Steam, it does the same thing you mentioned and I eventually have to restart my entire computer and start Steam first, then I can start NV.

It just a way for a company to *reduce* piracy (they will never prevent it 100%) and to stop you from re-selling your game (once the key is added to your account it's done). Not a fan of DRM but Steam beats other platforms (I hate Games For Windows Live). You're lucky your game works at all, on my PC I can't play it.

Valve (the makers of Steam) seem to have more reasonable stand when it comes to DRM.

Shift + Hold Tab = flashlight. Not that hard to figure out.

Oh, well have I got one for you. I went to install the game, and it installed Steam...which refused to open. I uninstalled it multiple times, reinstalled it from the disc and website, etc, and still could not play the game because Steam would not run. I called tech support, and spent an hour talking without figuring out the problem. I called another tech support, this time for Bethesda, who, of course, have no idea how Steam runs anyway.

Three hours after starting, I had to let a tech expert remotely control my computer. It took him almost an hour to figure out what the issue with Steam was and correct it, which required all my virus protection and other such things to be offline just to install the damned thing, then he had to do something else I don't fully understand to wrap it up.

That's four hours installing Steam to play a game that would have installed in ten minutes. And Steam still glitches sometimes for instant CTD, because when it glitches Fallout minimizes and disappears off the active programs list, requiring me to force close. What a wonderful program, right?

Steam seems to be getting a bashing recently with regards to this game being a bug ridden mess.

Im fairly certain (Math is a wonderful tool: NOT ONE game I have on Steam, and I have over 100 titles, has issues APART from FalloutNV...This is incuding Fallout 3 and Oblivion) none of these problems are inherently related to Steam, and are simply down to the fact Obsidian and Bethesda have employed [censored] monkeys to code and Beta test.

The fact the ground work is being done on an engine they bought from a bunch of equally [censored] primates only compounds the matter.

Ive said it already and I'll say it again. If it wasnt for John Carmack, Bethesda/Zenimax would probably go under in 5 years

I'm not a fan of Steam, but it's not that hideously bad. It doesn't affect my laptop's ability to run the game at all, and this is just a cheap-ass notebook I got for writing essays. It also does, as mentioned before, have that handy lil feature where it updates your patches for you.
BUT.
It is a right prat when it comes to playing in offline mode. I just moved inot a new flat, we hadn't got the internet up and running yet, and will Steam let me play New Vegas? I had the same problem of having to connect to the internet in order to play in offline mode. Steam just plain wasn't working for about an hour the day before that, it was telling me I needed to log in then it couldn't connect. These two examples are the only two where Steam has stopped me from playing for a considerable amount of time. Not too bad, really. They also conveniently fell on the two days really shouldn't have been playing New Vegas at all.
I however, don't get its point. It doesn't stop people from making illegitimate copies of the game at all, if it is in place to try slow down piracy, then it's really not doing a very good job at all. And preventing resales of old games is just plain stink. It's making enough money as it is. [DISCLAIMER: I DO have a legitimate copy of the game. I can show you the receipt! XD]
Steam's more of a minor irritation at times, rather than a crippling parasitic tumor, but I can understand your frustration.

Well it's not so much an argument, but here are my reasons for not wanting Steam.

I understand the benefits of Digital Distribution, “wave of the Future” and all that but Steam is not the only digital distributor.

I understand that the publishers want to have some form of online authentication purposes; I’ve installed programs before with similar requirements. (although they also had workarounds for use without an active connection) Once the software has been verified there should be no need for continued monitoring by the authenticator, especially for someone without an internet connection to their gaming PC, Okay I can set Steam to Offline Mode.

Being that computers the world over are made up of so many different brands of components that it is impossible for a software company to test every known configuration this means that some software will have bugs on some machines. If I am not having any problems then I’m leery of new updates and fixes. When I do haves bugs I have never had an issue finding the necessary patches, after reading the documentation that tells me what the patch is actually supposed to be doing. Either way I am perfectly capable of patching my software by myself, I neither need nor want a nanny program doing it for me. Okay I can set Steam to No Update.

I’m not really an impulse buyer, I normally do a bit of research into just about everything I buy. If there is a game that looks interesting to me I make the decision to buy based on numerous reviews, articles, videos and sometimes I try to find someplace to play the game a bit to see if I really like it. If I decide to get the game then I budget the money and make the purchase. One of Steams’ “benefits” that I hear so much about is the sales. What good does it do to offer me discounts on products that I either don’t want or already have? Okay I can set Steam to No Popups.

I have a custom built computer, built by me. I have a lot of custom settings in my OS, again by me. I don’t have anything installed on my machine with out me specifying exactly where it goes, when it will run and what it will be doing. Okay I can manually move all the Steam files to where I would have installed it given the choice and set it to No Run on Startup.

When I want to talk to my friends I either pick up the phone or drive to their house. When I want to be alone I pick up a book or fire up a game. I don’t want people bugging me to talk while I’m in the middle of playing a game. I’m not so insecure with my gaming abilities that I need to prove myself with a completely arbitrary set of achievements. I don’t have to know every time someone I know plays a game, what game it is and how long they played; I certainly don’t need my gaming habits published to others. Okay I can simply ignore the community features.

If I have a game that I want to have multiple simultaneous playthroughs with I will often create separate Save Game folders for each of my characters so that I don’t overwrite one save with another. I’m not sure how that would work if some “service” keeps uploading all my saves into cyberspace. I only game on one computer; I’m not sure what benefit I would have by having access to all my games remotely. I don’t really have a problem with losing or damaging compact disks, I’m fairly organized.

So what is the point of Steam?

It’s not something I need.
It’s not something I want.
Its causes more problems for me than it purports to solve.

Now I'm being told that I cannot play Fallout: New Vegas unless I install Steam and keep it on my machine from now until the day I stop gaming. I personally don't feel that is right.

This^

Dude hit it on the head. Why do game companies think we need things we never asked for?

I'm very serious when I ask this - where is there that still buys used PC games? Everywhere I used to sell my old PC games to has stopped buying them or gone out of business and I have quite a stack I would not mind unloading (many of which do not use online registration to bind CD keys to an individual user name).

tried amazon.com?

I sell mine on Craiglist or eBay when I'm done with them, and haven't had a single problem doing so.

I have a moderate amount of games that have been gifted to me, but I don't buy games on Steam, Impulse, or D2D though. They're both a waste, and a method of control to hurt second hand sales. It has nothing to do with piracy, don't let that blanket excuse fool you. 100% of games have been successfully pirated.

Huh did not realize they had a standardized automated trade-in. When you suggested that- at first I thought you meant sell them myself on amazon but no I did not realize they had a real buyback service. Looks like the most valuable game I own is about $1.00 with most of them being worth $0.25 though. I mean I knew PC game buyback would be lower than console buyback but man I wasn't expecting 1/8th price on very recent titles. I probably should have though.

Hah I think dragon age and awakening are my two most valuable PC games to resell- despite the DLC you won't get for free if you purchase a used copy of dragonage.

Try just holding Tab for the flashlight. No Shift needed.

This is not the first time this issue has come up. So let me repost, yet again, the following:

"Yes, steam stinks, its low grade spyware and adware. But in truth, Steam just like Microsoft live was chosen because of Money and Politics.

It makes it very hard to use any mod or utility that relies on the .exe as Fallout New Vegas can not be run directly from the .exe in its current state.

Of course if you would like to hear the official excuse (Which by the way is bull - again refer to Money & Politics):

" A few weeks back Bethesda and Obsidian started taking questions for the next Fallout title. A staff member on Bethesda's forum posted answers to a dozen of those questions yesterday, revealing that Fallout: New Vegas will rely on Steam for DRM. After looking at other options, the developers decided that Steam is the "best, least intrusive experience for PC gamers." The use of Valve's platform is great news, considering the recent string of less-than-cherished always-connected mechanisms from folks like Ubisoft.

Offering his take on Steam, senior producer Jason Bergman said the platform is tightly integrated with New Vegas. Steamworks is implemented in "as light and unobtrusive away possible," and it will be mandatory to play the upcoming Fallout. That said, you can install the game on as many systems as you want, and besides the initial activation, an Internet connection isn't required. " - TECHSPOT June 9, 2010




Would anyone just perfer the old fashion DRM on disk with the entire working program? Needless to say, those without internet access can not play(Activate) the game ( O' yes - I was in the military too ). "


Futhermore, for your enjoyment, I'll refer you to past steam posts:

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1141746-steam/page__p__16688504__fromsearch__1&#entry16688504

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1140859-steam-adds-so-much-value-to-fallout-nv/page__st__20__p__16677538__fromsearch__1&#entry16677538

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1139817-product-code-cant-be-activated-in-your-region/page__p__16688599__fromsearch__1&#entry16688599

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1137702-steam-verify-integrity-of-game-cache-fails/page__p__16638698__fromsearch__1&#entry16638698

Are you STEAMING? Good, Because all involved are still counting their caps !

I said DRM is worthless not Steam. Steam's DRM Steamworks is in question, but not Steam itself. Steam has many uses, for example autopatching, seemless DLC integration, install corruption repair tools, etc...

Many gamers are immature and WILL complain just about anything, so don't give me that crap.

Steam is a nice option for those can & want to to use it, Steamworks on the other hand takes away that option (at least in FNV).

I must say thank you, Níeh?ggr all to often around here it seems people confuse Steam & Steamworks.

I find it curious that we appear to have a number of people simultaneously stating that Bethesda should have delayed the release of the game until the bugs were all fixed and done extra bug testing, and also stating that the patch should be released as quickly as possible and all their bug testing is a waste of time.

This is despite the fact that the most prevalent bug in the current release was introduced by an attempt to fix a previous bug....which seems to indicate that the bug is trickier to fix than originally thought.

Also of note is that although this is the official support forum for the game, the total number of people who have posted on the entire gamesas forums equals less than three-tenths of one percent of the game's total sales. And that includes everyone who is posting in forums for other games, or is posting for reasons other than support issues.

I suspect people may have an exaggerated opinion of how many people are experiencing problems with the game. This could easily explain why Bethesda doesn't feel it is a crisis situation.

I realize that people are complaining on other forums too, and that numbers don't matter to people who can't play the game, but it does help explain some business decisions.

Steam is here to stay. Therefore this is not a PC H&S subject for discussion here and discussion of piracy confirms the need to close. Those posts have been deleted.