[Nadia Nad]

The whole premise of Elder Scrolls is being able to do what you want right? So why can't you kill certain NPCs? Well its because they are quest essential (lol?)

But I remember a time (Morrowind) when EVERY NPC could be KILLED. I miss those days. Sure it was annoying when you killed one of them by accident but it made the game feel so much more real.

When you did kill a quest essential (Main quest only) NPC you would get this lovely message...

"With this characters death, the thread of prophecy has been severed. Reload a previous save to restore the weave of fate or persist in the doomed world you have created!" or something like that

As I mentioned earlier, this made the game feel a lot more real when you actually had to worry about who you were killing. Also (sadism?) I miss being able to go on a grand killing spree and literally killing every NPC that didn't respawn. Anybody else feel this way?

I can't help but feel like The elder scrolls has had training wheels since oblivion with the invincible NPCs.

[Britney Lopez]

I think there are too many NPCs labeled as essential (Legates, anyone?), but I don't think the concept is flawed. The basic premise is that an assassin shouldn't kill some random person, only to find out (weeks later) that they killed someone who was an integral part of the Dark Brotherhood questline. I know it's less "realistic", but it's a whole lot less frustrating.

[Rudi Carter]

The game is pretty much what it's going to be. If you have design issues, you should play on the PC and modify it yourself. If you're set on playing it on a console, you should spend your energy finding the strengths in the game and not picking on it's weaknesses.

[Stephy Beck]

I admit as annoying as that message was it did tend to force me to pay attention to exactly what I was doing, No random bouts of homicidal mania for me back in Morrowind...not that i would ever do that in Skyrim...

[ILy- Forver]

Wouldn't it be even better if you got no message?

Just kill someone, quest fails . . . no telling you why, that it was because you killed so-and-so. No warning in advance, no clue to reload.

Kill who you want, whenever you want, and if you can't complete a quest . . . oh well.

[Juan Cerda]

I can see why they've done it this way though. Imagine. 200 hours in. You decide to tackle the main quest, only to find out a person crucial to the quest was killed 20 hours in by a dragon/thief/assassin/wolf/saber car/giant etc...

[Reven Lord]

The Mass won't enjoy messing up their game ;p

[Micah Judaeah]

I can see why they've done it this way though. Imagine. 200 hours in. You decide to tackle the main quest, only to find out a person crucial to the quest was killed 20 hours in by a dragon/thief/assassin/wolf/saber car/giant etc...

Even better. Let the PC kill whoever they want.

Martin Septim annoyed you by having the same response to a question 3 times? Take his head off 10 minutes after you meet him.

Screwed the MQ? Ehhh, so what?

[Richus Dude]

The Mass won't enjoy messing up their game ;p

That "Cut the thread of fate" message should take care of that, and is much cooler and allows for something Bethesda decided to do away with for this game and Oblivion, but more so in Skyrim. Choice.

The Essential characters thing is lazy. There are more creative ways to make sure people do not kill quest givers. Seriously almost every 5th NPC in Skyrim is essential.

[HARDHEAD]

while i personally do miss it, the majority of people probably would get upset..and beth has to cater to their audience, and that's the masses now

[Angela Woods]

I think the whole reason they added unkillable NPCs was because people complained about messing up the main questline in Morrowind and being forced to reload. Now people complain about unkillable NPCs. Maybe theres too many of them, but I've never been one to go on mass killing sprees for no reason.

[Shae Munro]

Even better. Let the PC kill whoever they want.

Martin Septim annoyed you by having the same response to a question 3 times? Take his head off 10 minutes after you meet him.

Screwed the MQ? Ehhh, so what?

I believe the point that the poster you responded to was trying to make was that, for people who actually want to do that quest, it's not "Ehhh, so what?"

[Jah Allen]

It would be nice if after you turned them down for a quest or finshed their quest, they lost their essentual status but things are what they are. The only folks I want to kill ( like Maven Blackbriar ) really require quest and consequences anyway.

[Laura-Lee Gerwing]

I believe the point that the poster you responded to was trying to make was that, for people who actually want to do that quest, it's not "Ehhh, so what?"

Yes, I know. My post was sarcasm.

I'm willing to bet that, if my suggestion was implemented and anyone was killable, at any time, by anyone/thing, with no warning . . . people would go ape-[censored]e. See my second post about Martim Septim not making it out of Kvatch.

[Ells]

"With this characters death, the thread of prophecy has been severed. Reload a previous save to restore the weave of fate or persist in the doomed world you have created!"

Wow, that's cool, I'v never seen that before, Thatsa great idea!

[Izzy Coleman]

But I love not being able to kill the homeless guy in Solitude!!!

HE'S SO ESSENTIALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

[Tinkerbells]

I dont miss it.

[Astargoth Rockin' Design]

i dont see why essentials exist, nothing can happen outisde of the cell you're in so if they die it is your fault and you desurve consequences (of course beth should make some decent AI first, no esbern fighting impossible odds [although i would like too see him be torn to shreads by zombies draugr] and no dragons killing every little thing in sight that is not you)

[Gemma Woods Illustration]

I agree. How in oblivion are we going to liberate Skyrim if we can't even kill the commanders at a imperial/stormcloak camp??

[jennie xhx]

I wouldn't mind too much tho as I save often, especially before mass killing sprees.

[Nathan Barker]

The game is pretty much what it's going to be. If you have design issues, you should play on the PC and modify it yourself. If you're set on playing it on a console, you should spend your energy finding the strengths in the game and not picking on it's weaknesses.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Skyrim. If I were to list its strengths I could go on and on. I just think its a little ridiculous that so many NPC are invincible just because they are involved with quests. It should be the players choice if they want to kill someone and subsequently ruin some quest.

Choices are supposed to have consequences, I whole-heartedly accept them. I for one enjoy going on random killing sprees once in a while, that was the main reason why I loved Morrowind so much. You could do whatever you want and destroy anyone who got in your way (if you were strong enough of course)

IDK why but it just REALLY frustrates me that I can't kill so many NPCs, for recreational and role-playing reasons. For example... (Role-Playing here)

Lets say i'm a stage 4 vampire. Almost all NPC's are going to attack me on sight because they consider me an "abomination." Well im not going to just stand there and let them kill me so obvious im going to fight back. I feel the need to punish every last one of those ingrates for their insolence but that pleasure has been robbed of me. Its just not the same when they go to their knees and get back up. I want them gone for good.

Same goes for someone committed to Lycanthropy...

[Grace Francis]

I'm tired of all these threads about essential actors.

As a modder, sometimes I feel like I have to protect my creations because you people are all homicidal.

How do you think the game designers feel when they spend a ton of time making a quest, and you just slaughter everyone involved for no good reason?

And let's be perfectly honest here: I'm tired of all these arguments that "it's the player's fault" if so-and-so dies. It's not. For example, in Oblvion, moving away from the Talos Bridge would put it into LOD. That would pop the collision out from under any actor who hadn't made it past the cell boundary yet, plummeting them to their death.

I don't want my fun cut short because I missed an important NPC fighting and subsequently getting eaten by a bear.

I checked every single essential actor listed in Skyrim.esm. They are all essential for perfectly valid reasons (save Noster Eagle-Eye). Try me -- name one, and I'll tell you why they're important.

[tannis]

I don't want my fun cut short because I missed an important NPC fighting and subsequently getting eaten by a bear.

I checked every single essential actor listed in Skyrim.esm. They are all essential for perfectly valid reasons (save Noster Eagle-Eye). Try me -- name one, and I'll tell you why they're important.

Your idea of fun is not the same as mine or anyone elses for that matter. Sometimes its fun to deviate from the set path and instructions you are given (i.e. choice)

Ill try you though, why are the Stormcloak/Imperial Officers/Legates essential AFTER you complete the civil war questline?

[Gen Daley]

They're considered part of the "moving government" -- the Jarl, Housecarl, steward, and their officer that are moved around as cities change hands.

They give quests -- or at least the Legates do, I'm not certain about the Stormcloak officers -- while you're doing the civil war quuest chain, but as to why they remain essential, it seems like an oversight.

The civil war questline has a lot of "junk" left over -- from full scenes (similar to the end of "Siege of Whiterun") where the Jarls are replaced for Riften and Markarth, to scripting indicating that the civil war was to be more "freeform and dynamic."

With all that left in there, I'm not surprised that the camp officers remain essential.

[Kahli St Dennis]

I suspect that the reason there are so many essential characters is that in order to get the game released on time they had to scale back Radiant Story a whole lot. They intended for RS to be able to replace quest related NPCs when they were killed, but probably couldn't get it working right by release date so had to disable large chunks of it and make the default NPCs essential. This is likely why we can't do things that were talked about pre-release like ruin local economies and whatnot, as well.