So...why all the QQ'ing : V - Skyrim

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:18 pm

No one here actually hates it. Almost everyone likes/loves it.

Most complaints are from fans who enjoyed the previous games more and are upset with the direction the series has taken. Or people who are upset at Bethesda for leaving out perfectly good features.

This. I am more disappointed than upset in the direction the game is going. The game is turning into a Arcade RPG than anything with depth. Your character has no upkeep whatsoever. Health regen (seriously?) The dialog in the game is strip down I.E walking into a shop or inn, there is no recognition such as "My favorite customer" etc.. Where is the disposition in this game? Often is pointless or has little effect on your in game actions. There are many other various things, but I am tired of repeating myself. Overall the game is becoming appealing to a greater audience who have a attention span of a 3 year old. Not name calling anyone, just saying how the TES is become so simplistic.

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:42 pm

Companies set player expectations through PR and media hype, for Skyrim there has been tons of expectations set. Since Morrowind, Oblivion, FO3 and FNV Bethesda has garnered a ton of popularity and a loyal following of people who continually have their expectations increased based on their history with their products. Many of those people who bought Skyrim bought it on a base set of expectations based on those that have been set by the PR/Marketing of the company. So nobody forced me buy the product but my expectations have been set.

That said, I've actually enjoyed playing the game, I have about 150 hours into it, keep exploring finding new things and have enjoyed it. BUT, that doesn't mean I don't have a list of things that completely surprised me based on the expectations that Bethesda set. Sure, the game world is amazing, the graphics are incredible, the shear size of the game is amazing. But, being in the software industry it's obvious that Bethesda RUSHED to hit the 11/11/11 deadline (something software manufacturers know they shouldnt do) rather then do proper QA. There are tons of bugs... if I didn't use the LLA patch I couldn't play the game, it would crash every 5 minutes, is that acceptable?? Did Bethesda cut corners in QA, hell yes they did.

Personally I don't think QQ'ing is bad, I think companies need to know if they produce good/bad products, they need to know what's wrong with them and how they can improve them. It's called 'feedback' and a necessary component to continual product improvement. If I pay a company $60 USD the product should meet the baseline expectations the company set, if not, better dam well be sure I'm going to say something.

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:41 pm

Side note: The thing is, subscription loss is bad, but WoW is ridiculously large. The game is not atop the marble pedestal it was 4 years ago, that is for sure. Prior to their new (May I mention, the second: "Guys This is the LAST expansion we will make... super serious this time") expansion, WoW is currently sitting atop a rather well made pillar... constructed entirely of Balsa wood.

Realistically it will never go away though. I mean GODS have you seen the player numbers for NwN, the Original, made in 2000 game? If NwN is still around, WoW will be played until the day you and I are dead and buried. They'll have to port it to Holodecks. Wesley Crusher will play it between sessions of sweeping out the stains from Reginald Barclay's time with Holo-troy.

To Address the OP: Dude, honestly this kind of stuff happens on every game forum these days. Part of it is the groups of PC gamers who think their word is law, and rule over all of gaming by Divine right. Part of it is Console tards. Part of it is trolls. Part of it is Gamers who expect perfection out of everything.

Honestly though, I have been big on forums for 3 titles this year: One that got horrible reviews, one that got mediocre reviews, and Skyrim. The exact same complaints were aired on all three forums: Game is unplayable because of X, this series is a failure and we should demand a refund for it because it wasn't worth the money, there wasn't enough playtesting because obviously if there was someone would have spotted bug Y. Somewhere in the boondocks of civilization, there is someone who thinks that something you don't really take all that seriously, is horrible to the point of being sacrilegious... Sometimes they have a reason to be cross, sometimes they don't. All in all it doesn't matter. You can't do anything to change their minds, and they think your an idiot. They will also freely state the aforementioned fact.

As has been said: Haters gotta hate.

Yes, haters gonna hate. After seeing so many threads about it, I just like to bring attention to how absurd they are. Is the game perfect? No, but it is one of the best ive played in a long time.

I also like to point out out dumb it is to come crying on the forums about dumb [censored]. There were some things I hated about Deus Ex, but would me going to the forum to cry about them change anything? no. The people at Bethesda are professionals, they realize what worked with Skyrim and what didn't. The next iteration of TES will be minus the stuff that didn't work so well, and they will add new stuff. The only constant is change. We can't go back. Time changes, seasons change, the position of the earth changes, the position of the solar system changes, the position of the galaxy changes, and video games change.

Either accept the changes, or know not to give them your money next time. THat is really the only vote we have.

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:15 am

Yes, haters gonna hate. After seeing so many threads about it, I just like to bring attention to how absurd they are. Is the game perfect? No, but it is one of the best ive played in a long time.

I also like to point out out dumb it is to come crying on the forums about dumb [censored]. There were some things I hated about Deus Ex, but would me going to the forum to cry about them change anything? no. The people at Bethesda are professionals, they realize what worked with Skyrim and what didn't. The next iteration of TES will be minus the stuff that didn't work so well, and they will add new stuff. The only constant is change. We can't go back. Time changes, seasons change, the position of the earth changes, the position of the solar system changes, the position of the galaxy changes, and video games change.

Either accept the changes, or know not to give them your money next time. THat is really the only vote we have.

And how actually did the professional at Bethesda derive what isn't working well with Skyrim? It's not a-priori knowledge.

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:25 pm

Yes, haters gonna hate. After seeing so many threads about it, I just like to bring attention to how absurd they are. Is the game perfect? No, but it is one of the best ive played in a long time.

I also like to point out out dumb it is to come crying on the forums about dumb [censored]. There were some things I hated about Deus Ex, but would me going to the forum to cry about them change anything? no. The people at Bethesda are professionals, they realize what worked with Skyrim and what didn't. The next iteration of TES will be minus the stuff that didn't work so well, and they will add new stuff. The only constant is change. We can't go back. Time changes, seasons change, the position of the earth changes, the position of the solar system changes, the position of the galaxy changes, and video games change.

Either accept the changes, or know not to give them your money next time. THat is really the only vote we have.

On don't misunderstand, I agree with you 100% man.

I just replace ire with vaguely dismissive sarcasm when it comes to dealing with them.

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:08 pm

First off.....no one MADE you buy this game. Second, no one makes you keep playing.

THat said, I've been playing games since the old Sega Master System days. I've played more games than most of you, I'd be willing to bet.

People write that the Elder Scrolls is dead, blah blah blah....

What is so bad about this game? In most aspects, the game is beautiful. The music is awesome. I remember when a game was nothing but some beeps strung together looped to form a melody.

The story is good. I prefer the Dragon and Civil War plots, over the Oblivion Gates. The NPC's are varied with well done voice acting. Skyrim is the "Norway" of Tamriel, and Most NPCs speak with the correct accent.

Here are one of the complaints I read....."BOO HOO Im too OP". this one give me a lol. They're "OP" but yet they want to wear the best enchanted armor and use the best enchanted weapons.....doh

The addition of perks is a great idea borrowed from TES's sister, the Fall Out series. Nothing wrong with it, and it works well. I appluad Bethesda for investing into the creation of this game. A game this huge had to have been very expensive. I applaud the extra effort to keep the LORE alive. Can you imagine how much effort (money) went into just writing stories for all the different books found lying about, even though they know that a good portion of gamers do not even take the time to read them. That is a prime example of the attention to detail and dedicationthat went into the creation of this game.

Thank you Bethesda, for creating this amazing sandbox for us to play in. 07

This is what I like to see! :rock:

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:20 pm

There's this thing called constructive criticism that anyone who creates things both wants and needs to hear. Without criticism making good games would be difficult and making great games nearly impossible. Without complaints and criticism developers wouldn't know what features went over well, what bugs need to be fixed, what numbers need to be tweaked, or what features needs to be added to maximize the gaming experience. Why you would not want a great game to get even better is beyond me, trying to shut it out would harm both Skyrim and any future elder scrolls games.

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:24 pm

There's this thing called constructive criticism that anyone who creates things both wants and needs to hear. Without criticism making good games would be difficult and making great games nearly impossible. Without complaints and criticism developers wouldn't know what features went over well, what bugs need to be fixed, what numbers need to be tweaked, or what features needs to be added to maximize the gaming experience.

Constructive criticism is calmly stating what you do not like and explaining the hows, whys, etc. while offering forward a well thought out solution.

Constructive criticism is NOT endlessly insulting the producer of a media for being a tosser while not adequately stating why.

If your going to complain, complain intelligently. Don't dismiss the hard work of many people offhandedly and proclaim the end of a decade and a half of combined work, simply because you aren't satisfied.

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:48 pm

I for one am exited Bethesda listened and changed things for the better from last games. In the past it learned and reduced the number of bugs at launch. Older games were basically uplayable at launch (Arena/Daggerfall) the newer generation is better.

One thing Bethesda has never learned or wanted to learn is game balance. This they ignore

:D

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:20 pm

There's this thing called constructive criticism that anyone who creates things both wants and needs to hear. Without criticism making good games would be difficult and making great games nearly impossible. Without complaints and criticism developers wouldn't know what features went over well, what bugs need to be fixed, what numbers need to be tweaked, or what features needs to be added to maximize the gaming experience. Why you would not want a great game to get even better is beyond me, trying to shut it out would harm both Skyrim and any future elder scrolls games.

Very true.

But....a lot of the forum crying is neither constructive or helpful, or even true.

Its like people feel entitled, as if the game should only be made to suit them. IF they do not like something then the game is "Broken". I am not saying that people should not talk about valid issues. I am also not such a huge really devoted fan of Bethesda, that I believe that everything they did was correct.

For example, Im 80 hours into the game and my biggest complaint are about chest. It would have been nice to sort the stored items in chest, the same way they are sorted in your inventory. That said, I am sure no one wants to read a thread about my complaints on the forums.

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:37 pm

This is the Elder Scrolls forums, most people think that in the subsection of the rules there's a "required to whine" clause

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:40 am

Constructive criticism is calmly stating what you do not like and explaining the hows, whys, etc. while offering forward a well thought out solution.

Constructive criticism is NOT endlessly insulting the producer of a media for being a tosser while not adequately stating why.

If your going to complain, complain intelligently. Don't dismiss the hard work of many people offhandedly and proclaim the end of a decade and a half of combined work, simply because you aren't satisfied.

Because a personal attack on me was completely necessary.

I have not done any of what you seem to be accusing me of, when I criticize something I do it constructively whenever possible.

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:02 pm

Because a personal attack on me was completely necessary.

I have not done any of what you seem to be accusing me of, when I criticize something I do it constructively whenever possible.

I do not believe he was singling you out. He/she was using "you're" as a metaphor for everyone who complains. "if you're going to complain..."

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:31 am

Because some people just like to be in the minority, like to rebel, like to think they are special for it... :rolleyes:
I have no problem if you dislike the game, i only have a problem if you cry about something, [censored] about something, yet do not provide a fix for those problems... Baby need a pacifier? Or just need a hug?

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:26 am

I do not believe he was singling you out. He/she was using "you're" as a metaphor for everyone who complains. "if you're going to complain..."

*Points to this*

Wasn't singling out Earath, just bad pronoun choice. Apologies on the confusing language

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:08 am

Bought the game, love the game, play the game, but I still have problems with it. I assume other people do as well and even though some people have more serious problems then others they all have the right to talk about them. They also have good reason too, because complaining on these forums can actually get things done contrary to the generally accepted idea that complaining hasn't gotten anybody anywhere. If enough people bring something up either developers or modders will fix the problem. Devs may only fix the bugs and balance issues but modders can and have rewrote the entire game (Oblivion, Morrowind, Fallout 3 and not Skyrim but still the same premise) before and can easily fix some of the minor game issues. If you have a problem that people can have fault in the areas you ignore or disregard because of your personal experience then you have every right to complain about them so long as you know they have the right to not care and continue complaining. I'll admit that what some people say is moronic but whether they are serious or just doing it to piss people off I say let them because they will either go ignored or may help fix a problem many of us had but never really cared to much about to say anything.

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:54 pm

I am one of those who are really enjoying the game.

I will admit that i havent been a TES for long. My first game was Oblivion, of which i wasnt a big fan. I got so bored with clearing the same lame structures after going to the demon gates i just quit playing one day and never went back. However, Skyrim has me hooked bad. I really enjoy it. I will say i wish there was more in the way of interactions between my character and his followers and love interests. Even the npcs i have helped barely acknowledge it. IMO, the sixual themes warning on the M rating could have just been left off. If i am married to someone in a game i would think there would at least be a bit more depth to the dialog and interactions.

My favorite rpg is DA: Origins. I can certainly understand the complaints of people who are disappointed with the direction of the new game. DA2 was a pile of crap, imo.

Skyrim has an awesome setting, great look and wonderful atmosphere, Love it.

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:40 pm

Because QQ closes the game.

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:25 pm

I am one of those who are really enjoying the game.

I will admit that i havent been a TES for long. My first game was Oblivion, of which i wasnt a big fan. I got so bored with clearing the same lame structures after going to the demon gates i just quit playing one day and never went back. However, Skyrim has me hooked bad. I really enjoy it. I will say i wish there was more in the way of interactions between my character and his followers and love interests. Even the npcs i have helped barely acknowledge it. IMO, the sixual themes warning on the M rating could have just been left off. If i am married to someone in a game i would think there would at least be a bit more depth to the dialog and interactions.

My favorite rpg is DA: Origins. I can certainly understand the complaints of people who are disappointed with the direction of the new game. DA2 was a pile of crap, imo.

Skyrim has an awesome setting, great look and wonderful atmosphere, Love it.

I agree DAO was a masterpiece. DA2 was a smoldering piece of junk.

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:01 pm

Well.
They do this because they have the right to it and better of all, a space to do so.

When you buy something that you feels isn't working as it should, don't you want to complain?
Well, here all who want, can, and even if Bethesda just ignore more of those complaints, being good or bad, reasonable or not.
All can express it.

And I bet that all who complains are lover as those who like 100% of it.

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:58 pm

It is awesome and some people do take their complaints to the extreme, but it has a lot of flaws, some of which can ruin the game for some people.

The biggest flaw to come to mind is destruction, since destruction completely useless at higher levels and this can really tick off people that have already put work into destruction. It ticks off mages in general too, since that is their main method of inflicting damage.

I think the 3D map was just a bad idea too. Oblivions map was much better and I wish they would have done something similar with Skyrims. This is a matter of opinion I guess, but it is one of my biggest issues with the game.

There are other flaws too of course, but despite my complaints I do love this game. I just don't want Bethesda to make these mistakes again.

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:45 am

1 word to the QQ'ers: MODS

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:34 pm

From what I can tell, the complaints are

3. It's not WoW

Has someone, anyone, actually said that? From what I can tell, that's a planted complaint, but not an actual one, usually thrown in by the "Single player games need no balance at all, anywhere" -crowd.

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:06 pm

Has someone, anyone, actually said that? From what I can tell, that's a planted complaint, but not an actual one, usually thrown in by the "Single player games need no balance at all, anywhere" -crowd.

A genuine fear of mine is TES series getting pulled into the same downwards spilar as WoW is in... And that all started with quest markers too.

But no, TES not being WoW as a complaint is the most rediculous thing in that post. And that post is pretty damn rediculous.

» Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:25 am

Skyrim is the "Norway" of Tamriel, and Most NPCs speak with the correct accent.

Some do, I wouldn't say most. There's a lot of german and russian/eastern european accents.