To be more clear, in an article I read in gameinformer on Oblivion awhile back, stated that the game Engine was too smart, so they had to make a patch to fix it.


I remember what it said, A person had experienced an Imperial Guard killing one of the people in the Jail over food. The Imperial Guard didn't have any food left, so he went down to the jail, tried to take the loaf of bread from one of the people down there and ended up killing him for it.

Why did they make the game (SKYRIM) , so that the people in the game are not as smart as they were during the first stage when oblivion first came out?

I found it cool to read that people in the game legit had a mind of their own. Was kind of scary to think that they could do whatever they wanted.

Now, the people just are dumb, they're only meant to do certain things and are very limited.

What are your guys opinions on having an extremely smart coding inside the game? Me? I would like to see the smartest coding Bethesda has to offer.

This was during the development of Oblivion, it was changed by the time Oblivion was released. They scaled back the Radiant AI because it went out of hand and caused havok much too often. Imagine yourself going into Whiterun for the first time, and all the NPCs are dead because they slaughtered eachother because of a loaf of bread. I wouldn't really call that "too smart" myself.

They never patched the AI in Oblivion. There were no post release alterations to have the AI worked. You have that bit wrong, though you're not far off the mark.

Basically, it was the radiant AI. Initial trailers and press releases talked about a more indeapth AI. People shopping, NPCs commiting minor crimes, hunting, trading etc. However, it apparently turned out to be too unpredictable. Someone would steal a bit of food, the owner would attack the thief, the guards would attack one or both, other npcs would join in on either side, depending on various variables and towns quickly became ghost towns.

It was scaled back prior to the games release, not patched out after. As it is Skyrims AI isn't any different to Oblivions, might even be better as I've yet to see anyone trying to walk through a wall or falling off of a bridge as happened so many times in Oblvion.

Just think of what happens when you drop a ring or something in a crowded place in Skyrim. It starts a huge fight and people die.
It would be like that, but the NPC's would start the fights without the player's involvement.

It seems to me like they implemented it, saw that it caused to much chaos and tried to dial it down, then maybe didn't have enough time to perfect it so they to the safer approach which ended up being a far more tamed AI.

That's basically it. The Oblivion E3 demo was just a showcase of new and exciting concepts. Some which would make the game in full (Oblivion gates), some which would be watered down (radiant AI) and some which would be removed completely (dynamic shadows, Sutch etc.).

I believe some of the chaos may still persists in Oblivion, specifically with Ongar the World-Weary in Bruma.

I actually wouldn't mind that.. Back in Nam.. I mean 1789, peasants stormed nobles houses in search of food in France.. I wouldn't mind a little of that in Skyrim..

No thanks. Look at all the people whining about vamp attacks. That would cause a whole nother chain of complaining. Something this forum really does not need.

Lets say it was a controlled attack.. Like they made a huge city like which should have been in skyrim.. And they only attacked certain buildings.. It could also be linked to quests..

Some npc did steal in Oblivion, however the guards did not arrest them, just attacked an killed the npc. A bit stupid as one lady was arrested in an thief guild quest, should be possible to expand it.
Skyrim has just the random thieves in Riften (they are made for the black star).

An smarter AI would let npc flee not attacking dragons and master vampires with iron daggers.

Well it wasn't removed entirely IIRC, I've seen the guards nail CIty-Swimmer to a wall countless of times.

A simulation in a game like this is no good if you can't interact with it. In Oblivion and Skyrim, NPCs killing each other doesn't give the player any new gameplay possibilites, only removes the ones that were there before by potentially killing quest givers or merchants. So they can't just make the AI smart, it needs to fit with the dialogue and quests, otherwise if you go to a town and see people attacking each other for food, but talk to them and they still say the same things and offer the same quests as if it weren't happening, it'd look really wrong and have the opposite effect of making the world seem more real. And they have to account for the overall state of the world; if the civil war needs you to invade Whiterun, the city needs to be kept alive until then. I don't think an unrestricted simulation and a written storyline can really coexist in the same game.

This.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Apparently before oblivion came out they had to dumb the AI wayy down because of stuff like that. Like one example was one of the devs dropped the skull of corruption on the ground and an NPC picked it up and used it on him, so he had a clone of himself attacking him.

But apparently it would make the game feel broken. Like you'd come into your house, and all your [censored] is gone cus someone stole it all. They said stuff like that feels more 'broken' then realistic. Or you'd go get a quest item, and an NPC already took it from the dungeon.

I too was apart of the flock believe they "dumbed down" everything, including the kitchen sink.


but think for a moment how dumb it is to kill someone over a fork?

"But people are killed for less in the Real world", Yeah uh huh but across a country? consistently? with "guards" partaking in the slaughter?

"uh yeah impoverished countries with no social order" ah see adhere to what you said, Social order. of which arguably exists in much of the provinces across Tamriel.

If they took more care and tuned the settings that dictated how far an NPC will go to obtain something as well as the Guard system then there wouldn't be that problem

so I digress, no dumbing down took place. no Anti Dumb measures were deployed

Except that people didn't know the vamps were on a path to take out critical, but not essential, NPCs. When DG took out two shop owners in Solitude, I uninstalled it and loaded from a previous save. No way. I couldn't care less Radiant Ramiant was gone, but I needed Bits and Pieces, as I hadn't unlocked the perk to allow shops to buy/sell all goods at that point.

Now I'm reading people are playing new games with DG in it and don't mind the attacks now, as they're "added realism".

It's all about how a mechanic is delivered, which is why the Radiant AI had to be scaled back. It's "going out of control" was real, but fixed because NPCs are the same, code wise.

If, though, there were levels of NPCs (essential, critical, expendable, replacement, etc), and the levels dictated their interaction, sign me up!

Walking into Markarth for the first time proved one thing to me: no matter what happened to NPCs, my path was always open.

Bah. If the girl dies, so should the quest.

Fornsworn raiding party? Yep, death = closed quests.

But your point comes into play: people won't like it because they weren't given the option to do the quest first, but won't utter a tear on the second game when they've "allowed" the game to close off the quest.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.