Why do I have no choices or consequences

Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:33 pm

i guess it depends on what you feel is choice & consequence. you seem to be referring to bioware style rpgs.. i find them utterly limiting & " choiceless". if my choices are dialogue options A Ab or Ac it doesnt really feel like much of a choice. same with say, male or female of essentially the same character... followed by very linear gameplay & little to no exploration.

i prefer the ES style of "go anywhere, do anything" type choices.

it comes down to style. they arent really compatible. you cant make a meaningful story (choices & consequences) out of an open game because theres simply too many factors to account for imo.

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Matt Terry
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:58 pm

If you can convince everyone to buy 3 copies to make up for what will now be perceived as lost sales, considering the minimalistic Skyrim's success... sure, you can have them back.

pfft what lost sales, best selling TES game ever right? and no I wont buy into that because I did for Oblivion...results?
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Cameron Garrod
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:18 am

Consequences? There are some consequences. FOr example.
Spoiler
Kill Parth(dragon), or let him live. If you let him live, you can't continue the blades quest. if you kill him, the gray beards will no longer help you.

Choices? I don't need to explain this. It's simply wrong.

The types of quests? People enjoy going through dungeons. I think they did great. You know why? Each dungeon is different. Always different. Most people don't care if they have to go into a dungeon to find great loot.

What about deadric quests? What about the quests with the dragon priest masks? What about assassinations contracts? What about the 6 different types of Thieve's guild quests. What about the quest where you wake up and don't know what happened?

You should realize that you just blatantly made this thread without thinking it through. I'm sorry
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Janette Segura
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:44 pm

I don't about you but i didn't like Fallout New Vegas. Maybe .. Fallout 3 .. some, but not even close to how much i love Skyrim.

Your gugu man.
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Mrs shelly Sugarplum
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:43 pm

I agree with the TC. I love Skyrim but why is it that the game is the most fun in the beginning and seems to go downhill from there? I made a bunch of different characters and tested various builds which was fun but now that im done with all that it just feels empty and repetitive.

Why is it that Oblivion and Morrowind kept me going but Skyrim is losing steam?

I think it's mindset. Personal expectations. Oblivion bored the heck out of me. I loathed the main quest. After I finished the game, I never went back. I haven't finished Skyrim yet but I can't wait to roll a new character and take a different direction. I enjoy the main quest..and the side quests as well as just wandering about. Your mileage may vary...
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Robert Jackson
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:16 pm

Consequences? There are some consequences. FOr example.
Spoiler
Kill Parth(dragon), or let him live. If you let him live, you can't continue the blades quest. if you kill him, the gray beards will no longer help you.

Choices? I don't need to explain this. It's simply wrong.

The types of quests? People enjoy going through dungeons. I think they did great. You know why? Each dungeon is different. Always different. Most people don't care if they have to go into a dungeon to find great loot.

What about deadric quests? What about the quests with the dragon priest masks? What about assassinations contracts? What about the 6 different types of Thieve's guild quests. What about the quest where you wake up and don't know what happened?

You should realize that you just blatantly made this thread without thinking it through. I'm sorry

Easy counter point to your one example of where there is a choice/consequence

Spoiler
I can join the Thieves' Guild or I can help tear it do--- oh, wait, no I can't.


One other one:

Spoiler
I assassinated the Emperor... how does the world react to this?



They don't.


And... correct me if I'm wrong... but aren't all those further examples nothing more than "kill x/collect y?"
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I’m my own
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:07 pm

it had elements of C&C like in Daggerfall when dealing with the Spriggan and the Wood Cutter (HA to that guy who said Daggafallz had no C&C beyond the End)

You mean the one where I am to locate a Spriggan in the middle of a dungeon infested with Skeletons (or vampires, or bandits...it's all random) and then help him out (or not) and afterwards the Spriggan is gone forever, the wood cutter is gone forever, my questgiver gives me a bit of gold and no one ever speaks of it again...the consequence part being?? No...you have to do better than that or you are just making Skyrim shine in comparison...
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Claire Lynham
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:32 pm

You mean the one where I am to locate a Spriggan in the middle of a dungeon infested with Skeletons (or vampires, or bandits...it's all random) and then help him out (or not) and afterwards the Spriggan is gone forever, the wood cutter is gone forever and my questgiver gives me a bit of gold...the consequence part being?? No...you have to do better than that or you are just making Skyrim shine in comparison...

oh man I got steamrolled, then again you wouldn't say the same about the RS missions....or anything in Skyrim at all would you now....oh wait since thats exactly what happens. its in the spur of the moment, no one cares afterwards.

BEWM COUNTER STEAMROLLED
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Budgie
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:31 pm

oh man I got steamrolled, then again you wouldn't say the same about the RS missions....or anything in Skyrim at all would you now....oh wait since thats exactly what happens. its in the spur of the moment, no one cares afterwards.

BEWM COUNTER STEAMROLLED

...at least the people still exist...

If I conquer a Stormcloak fort, Imperials now occupy the fort...in Daggerfall the fort would just disappear forever...no...wait, it might come up again, related to an entirely new quest...with an entirely new layout (extreme home makeover High Rock style), with Skeletons in it this time...
If I stop the nightmares in Dawnstar the people in Dawnstar stop talking about nightmares...
If I release the prisoners in Cidhna Mine...

Skyrim might not shine in comparison to some other rpg-titles, but it is infinitely deeper and more realistic than Daggerfall when it comes to choices and consequences...
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Mr. Ray
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:06 pm

If I stop the nightmares in Dawnstar the people in Dawnstar stop talking about nightmares...

Then how come the damn Whiterun mage keeps suggesting I join the College even though I'm the Archmage?
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Glu Glu
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:55 pm

papercut_ninga If I accepted your premise the character build was awful in morrowind- what possible connection to Skyrim does that have now? But I don't- regardless what you think, there were choices to be made in Morrowind regarding your build and your character grew over time- more choices than Skyrim.

Skyrim removed character build choices Morrowind and Oblivion both had more of- regardless of your personal feelings about Morrowind's build. Without a character build of depth in Skyrim, and consequences for actions reflected in NPC interaction, Skyrim is empty as the OP suggested. The construction of Skyrim made it so. Your bashing Morrwind does not change this.

I whole-heartedly agree with Old Grog. The old system of character building implemented in Morrowind and Oblivion was deep. it gave your character more life to see his/her attributes grow over time which you could influence with your skill progression. It was immerssive.

The new system in Skyrim is fine, albeit radical. But why does Skyrim feel like its missing something? And where is custom spelllmaking!? To me it feels like the questlines in Skyrim are too short. The mages college questline is unacceptably abbreviated. You go from novice to Arch-mage in like 5 quests (forgive my vagueness/inaccuracies). Same goe for the Companions.

Skyrim is a lovely, but shallow game.
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Frank Firefly
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:50 am

Then how come the damn Whiterun mage keeps suggesting I join the College even though I'm the Archmage?

Because Skyrim is full of consistency issues...we all knew that didn't we? I was simply reminding people that the beaches of Daggerfall aren't exactly blossoming with great choices and consequences...which some seem to be claiming.
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Amy Masters
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:33 am

Because Skyrim is full of consistency issues...we all knew that didn't we? I was simply reminding people that the beaches of Daggerfall aren't exactly blossoming with great choices and consequences...which some seem to be claiming.

Which makes me wonder as to why, being this is the fifth game, the series hasn't really progressed much over time. Or has and then has died away.
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Ashley Tamen
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:48 am

Consequences? There are some consequences. FOr example.
Spoiler
Kill Parth(dragon), or let him live. If you let him live, you can't continue the blades quest. if you kill him, the gray beards will no longer help you.

Choices? I don't need to explain this. It's simply wrong.

The types of quests? People enjoy going through dungeons. I think they did great. You know why? Each dungeon is different. Always different. Most people don't care if they have to go into a dungeon to find great loot.

What about deadric quests? What about the quests with the dragon priest masks? What about assassinations contracts? What about the 6 different types of Thieve's guild quests. What about the quest where you wake up and don't know what happened?

You should realize that you just blatantly made this thread without thinking it through. I'm sorry

I said in my original post that I was talking about quests outside of the MQ.
As for the Daedric quests, yes they are good, but certainly do not have any element of choice on how to proceed. At no point does your actions or the way you build your character influence the outcome of the quest. It will always be the same: You get the same dialogue and the artifact.

The only choice we have in the majority of quests, even the guild and faction quests, is whether we want to pursue them or not.
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Roy Harris
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:25 am

...at least the people still exist...

If I conquer a Stormcloak fort, Imperials now occupy the fort...in Daggerfall the fort would just disappear forever...no...wait, it might come up again, related to an entirely new quest...with an entirely new layout (extreme home makeover High Rock style), with Skeletons in it this time...
If I stop the nightmares in Dawnstar the people in Dawnstar stop talking about nightmares...
If I release the prisoners in Cidhna Mine...

Skyrim might not shine in comparison to some other rpg-titles, but it is infinitely deeper and more realistic than Daggerfall when it comes to choices and consequences...

yeah you're right, but heres the thing. sorry I should have been clear when I participated, and infact I believe I did when I first made a post here. I desire More, yeah all thats there but those are the only outcomes, infact the only outcomes. I'm not counting ignoring the nightmare plagues or ignoring the civil war, contrary to popular belief it may be a choice to NOT participate in an event but it is not included in the choices and consequences made during that event

I desire this to be recognized, when I am participating in an event, I desire choices during that event and consequences of them ;p

I want my Points PCN
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JD FROM HELL
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:31 pm

Which makes me wonder as to why, being this is the fifth game, the series hasn't really progressed much over time. Or has and then has died away.

No idea...maybe they figure people will be forgiving and overlook certain aspects as long as the game can deliver in other ways. It works on me, I am well aware that a lot of the content isn't very high standard in terms of writing and storytelling, but I get a fun and functional character build system, great atmosphere, some moments of creative and innovative story elements (like the individual dungeon-stories) and those strengths carry the game past the weaknesses for me.
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Noraima Vega
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:43 pm

Easy counter point to your one example of where there is a choice/consequence

Spoiler
I can join the Thieves' Guild or I can help tear it do--- oh, wait, no I can't.


One other one:

Spoiler
I assassinated the Emperor... how does the world react to this?



They don't.


And... correct me if I'm wrong... but aren't all those further examples nothing more than "kill x/collect y?"

No you can't destroy the thieves guild but you can
Spoiler
destroy the Dark Brotherhood

Here let me ask you this, what other types of quests are there that are FUN and EXCITING that are not 'Kill X and Retrieve Y'? That's what makes the quest..a quest. I don't know what a lot of people are asking for when it comes to this, do you want to have 50 quests about cleaning the general store?

This is the Elder Scrolls. Most quests will have 'killing' in it.

Not only that, but the quest is how YOU MAKE IT.

This game is how YOU MAKE IT.

If you make this game boring for yourself then it will be boring. You get the sense of repetitiveness when you fast travel.

If you will, give me an example of a 'fleshed out' quest that A- Does not involve killing X , or B- Retrieving Y
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Jade Muggeridge
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:40 am

Kill/fetch quests aren't the problem. Its the lack of substance behind the reason for the quest,
"get my sword back and I'll give you some training."
If you're capable of increasing my skills why don't you just get it yourself?
"My Mrs wont let me."
-_-....


"Get me 10 fire salts for my forge!"
There's an Alchemist over there with like 6?
"Go get them!"
-_-....

"Alduins back Only the Dragonborn can kill him!"
Why is that?
"Because you can absorb his soul!"
*Kills Alduin - Doesn't absorb soul - Gets killed by snow troll the very next day*
-_-.....

Its inconsistencies that are jarring to the point of nausea at times. Don't get me wrong, the game is fun. Its just really really stupid at times too.

ill repost this the the guy above.
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Julie Ann
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:48 pm

I can't think of a single quest in Morrowind which wasn't kill x or retireve y. The reasoning was quite often pants, too.

A lot of people are looking back with rose-tinted beer goggles.
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lexy
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:38 pm

No you can't destroy the thieves guild but you can
Spoiler
destroy the Dark Brotherhood

Here let me ask you this, what other types of quests are there that are FUN and EXCITING that are not 'Kill X and Retrieve Y'? That's what makes the quest..a quest. I don't know what a lot of people are asking for when it comes to this, do you want to have 50 quests about cleaning the general store?

This is the Elder Scrolls. Most quests will have 'killing' in it.

Not only that, but the quest is how YOU MAKE IT.

This game is how YOU MAKE IT.

If you make this game boring for yourself then it will be boring. You get the sense of repetitiveness when you fast travel.

If you will, give me an example of a 'fleshed out' quest that A- Does not involve killing X , or B- Retrieving Y

I didn't ask about the Dark Brotherhood did I?

And it's not that it's a "kill x/collect y," it's the fact that there's no real varied ways you can go about it.

I've never been able to pay a group of Bandits to kill someone for me.

While I doubt that hasn't happened in any prior TES games, being as this is the fifth, and the second on 360, you'd think stuff like that would begin to happen.
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:)Colleenn
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:24 pm

I didn't ask about the Dark Brotherhood did I?

And it's not that it's a "kill x/collect y," it's the fact that there's no real varied ways you can go about it.

I've never been able to pay a group of Bandits to kill someone for me.

While I doubt that hasn't happened in any prior TES games, being as this is the fifth, and the second on 360, you'd think stuff like that would begin to happen.

So your criticizing the game for not having YOUR way of taking out someone? The game is about you not about paying other people to do the job for you.

But if you really want someone else to do the job for you.. get a follower..send him to attack the person, there case closed.

No you didn't ask specifically about the DB. But you were criticizing skyrim for not being able to destroy a guild. Well, it's possible for one.

Other then hiring bandits, what other way can you go about doing a "fetch and return quest" or an "assassination quest".
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Horror- Puppe
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:21 pm

And it's not that it's a "kill x/collect y," it's the fact that there's no real varied ways you can go about it

How many ways are there, really, to kill x or collect y?
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Antony Holdsworth
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:02 pm

I can't think of a single quest in Morrowind which wasn't kill x or retireve y. The reasoning was quite often pants, too.

A lot of people are looking back with rose-tinted beer goggles.
The thing is, indeed in Morrowind quests were kill x or retrieve y but retrieve y could be finished with killing z and killing x could be finished with retrieving w based on actual choices. Then quests became objectives or linear adventures, agency disappeared.
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SWagg KId
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:15 pm

I play on the console

Hello, I played Skyrim for about 100-200 hours and I do not think I will be playing any more. Simply, nothing I do matters and it is frustrating. I recently bought Fallout:New Vegas and I am astounded at how this game puts Skyrim to shame in almost every area except graphics. It's like they made huge leaps forward in terms of story/quest/dialogue construction in FNV, but decided to ignore everything when they made Skyrim.

It just feels like after the first 50 hours on any character it is the same quest styles with no real choice or consequence; go kill x or collect y. In FNV the factions I decide to join and the quests I take on matter because it could negatively impact my character in the future. In this game however, I can be and do whatever I want and join any faction no matter how nefarious without consequence. I am just in a sandbox with pretty scenery, not a living breathing world. There are just so many quests and npcs but hardly any value outside of the main quest.

This is a shallow, superficial game. I think they should have taken 6 months after they finished the world to include branching quests and dialogue choices that end differently and interestingly depending on choices made. Is this really too much to demand? It has been done in about every Bioware game and Fallout 3/NV.

There is no longevitiy, only volume. The only replayability is in creating different character builds. This is the 21st century, games have progressed beyond that. Sorry for the rushed feel of this post, I kind of just threw it together to share my thoughts on a game that is both progressive in terms of visuals but massively regressive in terms of choice and consequence.

The argument that "nothing I do matters" is a flawed concept. Clearly, each choice you make, from choosing which direction to wander in to choosing what type of armor you wear to what skills you choose to pursue, has an effect and consequence. Aside from mere gameplay choices, such as you'd never discover town X if you never travelled in that direction, the quest choices you are presented with always- ALWAYS have a consequence- you can choose to stop pursuing that questline- even the main questline- at any time. Clearly this also has a series of consequences. If you never choose to keep following questline Y you will not acheive reward Z.

From your choice to play stealthily or not, to rely on magic or brawn, to the clothes you wear to the towns you visit (or terrorize), to the more global aspects of the main quest, everything you do has consequences. Some of them are done in a very subtle way, in terms of people or groups you may meet on the road. Some of them are overt, such as being told you must kill a particular character the game has almost certainly made you like.

Other aspects are taken for granted, such as the endless 'Imperials vs stormcloaks' threads that we still see here. Players quite plainly see some sort of consequence, since they debate the merits and failings of choosing one side or the other. Skyrim is not a game of clear-cut paths; there is very seldom a "good" path marked out for you. It's shades of gray and I think it was done on purpose, as it's easier to make a 'good choice/evil choice' system. If I'm right and that was on purpose, it's a much more sophisticated system in concept than people want to hear about in general, because most folks lament the gameplay concept on this forum.

I must conclude that despite your assertation that "nothing you do matters", this is merely your flawed perception, not a fact. I can't honestly beleive that you truly mean literally "nothing" you do matters.

You don't like the game; that is fine, it is acceptable- more than acceptable, its your right. But you cannot make any argument that will covince me that "nothing you do" in Skyrim matters. It is my opinion that an objective observer would agree that the game by definition has consequences for actions.
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Hazel Sian ogden
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:46 pm

So your criticizing the game for not having YOUR way of taking out someone? The game is about you not about paying other people to do the job for you.

But if you really want someone else to do the job for you.. get a follower..send him to attack the person, there case closed.

No you didn't ask specifically about the DB. But you were criticizing skyrim for not being able to destroy a guild. Well, it's possible for one.

Other then hiring bandits, what other way can you go about doing a "fetch and return quest" or an "assassination quest".

Pretty sure I can't run them over with a carriage.
Or push a boulder onto them.
Poison their food.
Poison their drink.
Invite them out to a picnic and have a bear attack them.
Can't pay someone in town to do it.
Can't perform the Dark Ritual to get a Dark Brotherhood contract.
Can't set up an "accident."
Can't frame them for any crime.
Can't even persuade them to leave the city and give me all their stuff.

Are there single or a small handful of these things? Maybe.

But that's the problem.

How often can I actually talk my way through a quest, completely talk my way through, and have it end differently than if I slaughtered everyone?

This game is about me, as you said, well... the "me" doesn't want to get their hands dirty.
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e.Double
 
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