I'm on my second playthrough thus far, my first character being a typical sword and board warrior and my second now being a combat-based archer (as opposed to a stealth-based archer). My archer is about level 53 and I've began to notice how irrelevant stamina, as a resource, is to the play style. There are only two meaningful mechanics that will drain your stamina while as an archer, and that's sprinting and zooming in with the Eagle Eye perk. The sprinting mechanic is not exclusive for archers, being available to all play styles, and sprinting as an archer as a means of staying out of melee range of opponents is less effective than simply backpedaling away from a target and locking them down with Power Shot staggers, especially verse enemies whom are faster than you are (such as bears). Zooming is useful for long ranged shots or close-ranged shots on a target moving horizontally from yourself, but doesn't really drain stamina at any meaningful rate. Nothing else costs stamina as an archer; it's got to the point where I simply put the rest of my attribute points into health, since I'm already set for life on stamina at 250, and I know I could manage perfectly fine on Master difficulty with even less.

Why must stamina be irrelevant as an archer? I don't think it should be. Resources in video games has always been an important and defining factor of gameplay, since it gives the player an artificial limit to their effectiveness, one which they must learn to properly play around in order to succeed. When they are able to succeed, it gives a feeling of satisfaction and triumph over what might be seen as one's personal burden. It really doesn't make sense even from a realism/immersion standpoint either. Wouldn't constantly tugging at a long bow's tight band be exhausting after a while? Wouldn't having to kite an opponent while simotaneously pelting him with arrows be even more exhausting to even a trained archer?

I feel that drawing an arrow with one's bow should cost a certain amount of stamina, with stronger bows costing more stamina per arrow drawn. Moving while an arrow is drawn should also cost additional stamina to be drained while the player is in motion (heavier bows will drain more stamina if an arrow is drawn while moving), meaning that your ability to kite (and how long you're capable of kiting) will be linked to how much stamina you have. This means the player will be required to better position him/herself during combat scenarios so using a bow while moving isn't as common or required; it also means the player is required to aim his/her shots more carefully since a missed shot with an arrow is wasted stamina. Making stamina a relevant resource for Archery would greatly improve the play style of the spec, in my opinion, especially considering how simplistic the spec is to play already. (Besides aiming at targets at a long distance, there really is nothing remotely hard about playing a pure archer)

There are other issues with the play style I'd like to address (such as Power Shot/Bullseye stagger/paralyze locks), but that can wait for another time.

Well you can bash with the bow which my combat archer does a lot. That drains stamina pretty quickly.

Not only that, but why does jumping not require stamina.....

I can swing any sword without using a drop of endurance, same with spells. Same with archery.

So by your logic, non-power swings of swords should also cost a tiny bit of endurance?

Melee weapons can power attack for additional damage and to stagger opponents. You can also bash (or power bash if you're invested in blocking) a target as another stamina dump. Sprinting is also more useful as a melee since you'll need to close the distance between yourself and a distant target, something that archers do not have to worry about.


I forgot to mention the bash with the bow, but then again, I'm rarely in a position in which I'm required to use it. The Power Shot/Bullseye perks in the Archery tree are usually more than enough to keep a target off of you, but that's a separate issue entirely.

Stamina is irrelevent for all combat. Basic attacks cost no Stamina and you can power attack with just 1 Stamina for full effect. There is literally no reason to raise Stamina in Skyrim unless you are RPing a long distance sprinter.

Stamina is flawed in that actions that require it can be performed when you have less than the amount it drains. It should work like Magicka, if something needs 40 Stamina to be performed you should have to have 40 Stamina to do it.

I think I'd rather have Destruction get buffed. My archer has to use sprint alot to keep out of melee even when she has an atronach at her side. I kinda feel that if every attack used stamina, then the archer would be unable to gain ground or shout when it is most needed. Destruction mages can still run and shout when out of mana. Making Archery like that would just put it on the same level as destruction except you're even more screwed when the resource runs out.

I put stamina in my stealth archer and find it quite usefull.
Mostly at early levels,sprinting away from enemies you simply can't beat can heep you alive.
At later levels being able to carry more is nice,since I'm also an alchemist I am always carrying a bunch of ingredients and potions and always looking for more.
I do put more points in health though.

Stamina had its uses as a melee-based character, but the uselessness of the attribute has become very clear after I've taken up archery. There really is no reason to invest any significant amount of points into the attribute unless you feel like sprinting long distances or carrying more items away from dungeons.

I disagree, I have 300 stamina, and while the sprinting for ever comes in handy, so does the ability to carry 5 armor sets, 10 greatswords as well as several other things(The Elder scroll, glemori witch head, etc.etc)
Also, being able to pick up everything in a dungeon is pretty funzies!

There are issues plaguing Destruction and Mage characters in general right now, which is why I've been reluctant to roll a dedicated Mage for a bit now. There are overpowered characteristics that need to be toned down (Impact staggerlocking, mana-free spells via Enchanting, etc.) and there are underpowered characteristics that need to be buffed. (Destruction's poor scaling) When it comes down to it, however, I feel that both melee roles and archery are overpowered and trivialize the game even on the hardest difficulties, and that's ignoring the use of smithing, enchanting or alchemy. With any one of those professions, it becomes a complete joke.

If u zoom with your bow you use a lot of stamina. on my archers i first choose 150 health then 150 stamia then 200 health then 200 stamina after that i only choose health, so i have a lot of health and 200 stamina

Thats basically what I did,I alternated between health and stamina until I got to 200 stamina,now it's all health.

I just posted on a similar thread concerning your topic:

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1330426-good-archer-setup/#top

Unless you're literally using zoom for all of your shots, I don't see it being any significant drain on your stamina pool. Even during the times in which I've frequently used zoom in order to combat a distance mage or archer, I'd still have a good 50% stamina left when the target dies, which then regenerates back to full in a moment's time.

In all honesty with a bow's range narrowed down in Skyrim zooming in makes this perk practically useless. That's my opinion anyway.

I don't use the stamina for zooming and slowing time so much,yes I do zoom and slow time.
I just found stamina at low levels to be very useful for sprinting away from enemies that I just can't beat yet.
I'm level 28 now and stamina isn't needed as much,it is still useful though for a little extra carry weight.

Edit:But I guess we all have different play styles,wich is a good thing.

It's odd. You'd think that video games would become more fun as you level up and become more powerful, but I feel the opposite about Skyrim. The game was the most fun after you exit the introduction training mode in Helgen and exit into the actual game world, because your resources actually felt limited and you felt weak in comparison to others around you. You had to be careful and treat each situation with care or else you'll end up on the front page of the next courier paper.

Once you level up though, you can practically run anywhere and blow through whatever "challenge" you come across, mainly because that little green bar doesn't really restrict you in any way. Same with the little blue bar, if you're a Mage. The challenge of the game goes out the window because the limiting factors are diminished as you level. It's kind of sad, really.

I'm still only level 28 so it's still fun for me and sometimes challenging.I guess at level 53 you would become to powerfull then,when I get to that point it's time to make a new character.I've most likely would have done everything that that character would want to do anyhow.

As for perks like Power Shot and Bullseye, something needs to be done to make these perks less important (and, at the same time, less stupid) for archers. Your primary method of kiting a target is by staggering them repeatedly, which can be annoying consider it only works 50% of the time. That's often enough, but I fondly remember a time while leveling in which I got 4 good arrows into a snowy bear without any staggering him, in which case my face gets mauled. I reload my auto save, engage the same snowy bear and proceed to kill said snowy bear without any difficulty at all because Power Shot proceeds to staggerlock the bear from 100% to zip from the first arrow to the last.

Arrows being capable of staggering targets should still exist, however, because it's our primary method of interrupting the casts of a mage who's throwing lightning our way. If we couldn't interrupt such casts, we'd have to hug the nearest line of sight obstruction just to keep our faces from getting melted off.

Preferably through a mod, I feel bows should get a power attack mechanic, just like how melee have their own power attack/bash while mages have impact staggerlocks. However, the right mouse key is already bound to zooming via Eagle Eye, or by bashing with the bow if your arrow isn't already drawn. Either the bow bash can be removed and replaced with a power attack of some sort, or maybe the sprint key can be made into a power attack mechanic when an arrow is already drawn with the bow. Food for the thought.

The fact I'm level 53 only shows that I've played my archer to a reasonable enough degree to give my opinion on how the play style works and what can/should be changed about it. Stamina, after the first few levels of play, was irrelevant for the entirety of my time playing an archer outside of increased looting capacity. I first noticed how useless stamina is to archers as early as level 6.

Yes i agree Areos, it would be nice to be able to shoot 2 arrows at the same time, Legolas style? 3 perhaps? Damn, that would be a very good idea! Bow power attacks or power shots, you name it, would be a great addition to the somewhat tedious firing loop we archers are used to.

I'm inclined to simply remove the bow bash. Some people are bound to tell me how it's important for usage as an archer, but I feel a power attack in its place would be just as useful, if not more useful. It could consume a total amount of your stamina and deal additional damage, along with staggering the target, in relation to how much stamina was consumed. For example, the power attack would consume 30% of your total stamina, but its power is increased in relation to how much stamina was actually consumed. This means that an archer with 300 stamina will have a stronger power attack than an archer with 100 stamina, assuming they're the exact same level with the exact same perks and gear, etc. because the first archer is consuming 100 stamina in order to use his power attack while the first archer is only consuming 30 stamina to use it. This would make the power attack a powerful stamina dump no matter what level you are, but it will still scale effectively with stamina despite its percentage cost.

Power Shot could simply be edited to allow the use of a bow's power attack. Normal arrow shots would no longer have the capability of staggering a target, but possibly slowing a target's movement speed momentarily. Who knows.

Thats a bug imo. Hopefully will be fixed in a patch.