Now while this topic was heavily debated when I posted this thread before, there are still some issues that were posted previously that I think I should respond to, that can encourage further debate. This was the original post here.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1410719-why-skyrim-demeans-you-and-your-player/

Now, some of the rebuttals posted when I wasn't able to respond were responses like the New Vegas choices didn't matter because of things like the fact you couldn't get the NCR to take over the Strip.

I think I should clarify and say that I don't think that the choices in New Vegas are perfect. But I do believe that they were a step in the right direction that Bethesda should have taken a cue from, and put into Skyrim. No, I don't want Skyrim to be similar to Fallout. But I wanted it to have the same depth of character interaction. Let me take a basic example.

When the Dovahkiin joins one side or the other for the Civil War questline, nothing really happens in terms of the world. Sure, some Jarls get deposed, some guards have new skins, but that's it. No one really cares. Not to mention that the questline is the exact same no matter what way you do it, but that's another issue.

If the Dovahkiin, the slayer of Alduin and by this point, a legend of Skyrim and Tamriel, joins the Stormcloaks, nobody cares. Nobody in the streets talks about the fact that the Dovahkiin is a Stormcloak. Nobody in Solitude expresses their worries towards the fact that the Dragonborn is helping Ulfric win the war. Nobody cares.

I want my name to be a curse in Imperial camps, and be hailed as a hero by the Stormcloaks, or vice versa. I want to go to Windhelm and feel actual fear when I don a Stormcloak uniform in order to keep myself disguised.

I just want to do something that matters, and see how the world reacts. This was an idea that was almost there in New Vegas, but they could have taken it to glorious heights in Skyrim.

Skyrim defintely dropped the ball in certain areas when compared to New Vegas but then again the Elder Scrolls was never a choice driven game series to begin with. Hell they retconned Daggerfall's 6 endings with Warp Of The West.

Skyrim is stronger from an exploration point of view although you'll be better rewarded in Fallout 3/New Vegas for exploring (Lincoln's Repeater, Items in Vault 34 armory, etc).

This topic demeans the board. We have covered this topic enough.

Oblivion actually did a better job than Skyrim in terms of randomn NPCs recognizing your accomplishments in conversation. Become champion of the Arena and people talked about it. Become Archmage and people noticed. One of the most annoying bits of dialog in Skyrim is when the Whiterun court mage tells the Archmage that he should consider joining the college in Winterhold. But that sort of thing I chalk up to Behtesda rushing to make an artificial deadline and not paying attention to the details.

Where's my club? Time to flog the deceased equine some more.

Storylines were definately better in Oblivion then Skyrim, but I think that has a lot to do with the Radiant Quest mechanic, which is kind of crap now but by next game will probably be pretty well realized.

The shortcomings of skyrim will end up leading to a better series in the future.

Just became Harbinger.....Guard: So what do you do, fetch the mead?

Love skyrim, but that always pissed me off.

In FNV, the only incentive to explore was for unique weapons and gear. In Skyrim, the areas and land scape is fun to explore, and the history of said areas, but lack unique gear. Wish they could just tie it in for both.

on the story-lines, beth put all theri apples in one basket (that radient story they scraqed half-way through) and that basket caught fire. the stories in skyrim really svck, and basic mechanics were massively downgraded from oblivion to skyrim, but on the bright side we get an awsome world


you can get much better stories for your exploration in NV, and fallout's world just looked better imo, because it didnt look like it was made to look good. skyrim is made to look good everywhere and it quickly becomes the norm so you get bored easily (while the endless dunes of the wasteland may get a bit boring, when you see a new sight in fallout you are captivated, or i am at least, watching the deathjaws in quarry junction, while life-threatening for a low level like i was, was amazing), there is still amazing sights in skyrim (blackreach, for one) but i am less amazed than when i see somethign interesting in the wasteland

I am probably only saying this because I am on PC, but I prefer locations with stories and content over generic caves with bandits. AWOP mod created more locations than I would care to explore for FONV, but there are still no mods that create story rich environments like Obsidian did.

Edit:

wow someone is grumpy, you know there is no law against ignoring topics right?
Just use imagination and RP that the topic you don’t like isn’t even there lol.

The thing is that I have more of an incentive to explore in FNV. Finding unique weapons and armor is very rewarding, but in Skyrim I find myself fighting through random druagr dungeons and finding a predictable chest in the end with garbage loot. Skyrim is very predictable in terms of dungeon layout and the prizes you get are mostly shouts and random loot that you almost always see coming.

That's when you punch the guard in the face and pay your 40 septims.

and then you punch him again lol come on it's only 40 septims you can afford to do it a handful of times

That's one of the main problems with Skyrim, not enough pre set loot. Still can't believe I was against more preset loot before Skyrim came out. Now I wish that Skyrim had more preset items. Even Fallout 3 had plenty of preset items and New Vegas as well.

I can still find an Ebony Sword at level 1 if I spend half an hour to an hour shooting arrows at a Drugar Deathlord but it's still not as good as New Vegas where I'll be rewarded for exploring in areas that are high level even if I'm at low level.

Yep...

OR, "Wait, I know you".

Really, let me let you pass, sneak up behind you, and rob you blind. Then, I'll go sell your stuff to subsidize my bounty when I slice your throat.

I explored because the world was interesting and full of interesting things to do. I also liked finding better equipment, but that was just a side interest for me.Thats when I decapitate him with my hammer and then reload.

Wait, what?

All I see is FNV is better at exploration than Skyrim. Two different developers. Go play that game then

skyrim was amazing

and then all i kept finding was really atrocious plot / writing. i have found plot holes and extreme stupidity in all of the main quests, and that's... pretty bad.

so now i just explore it because pretty and stick to morrowind if i want content


it is completely possible to enjoy a game but be very disappointed in something that could have EASILY been fixed

think of the incessant whining as really avid fans getting out the word that bethesda needs to step the [censored] up and deliver quality, not something painted cheap and pretty like a [censored]

The unique gear and loot made exploring more fun like in Morrowind for example. That game oozed unique loot out of several places within the game. I will say I like the storied and lore the dungeons have. But they ate very linear and would have been better with some branching paths and unique loot.

Skyrim does have a good world design. Rivaling Vvardenfell in terms of uniqueness ad far as detail is concerned. That however does not justify zero consequence to any choice made. There should have been more factions that offered more detail and you should not be able to join the legion if your a thief unless you betray one or the other later on in the quest. That is what some of us mean when we say choice and consequence.

Unfortunately, that's not roleplaying, that's cookie hunting. So, any "advantage" a game might have in this repsect is completely lost on me. FO, for me, offered absolutely nothing intriguing in any iteration. I found the CC system annoying, the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system hoaky (at best) and annoyingly cumbersome (at worst). The worlds lacked flavor/flair, just one more Mad Max world after another, with one cookie cutter caricature after another. Lackluster weapons, corny specials, contrived and uninteresting stories. Just me, well maybe not JUST me, but just my opinion.

That one Draugr Deathlord you're talking about... WAY beatable for a savvy/skilled player, but you may not get the ebony out of the deal. I remember this exact situation because...

My middle daughter (21) started playing and developed a "bit of this", "bit of that" character. So, diverse, but only level 9, so WAY underpowered to face up against that death lord. She had no pre-dungeon saves, no pots, got frustrated and stopped playing. SOOO... we were talking about Skyrim one day, me, her, and my youngest (8). So I ask her to load it up and see if we can get passed it. She tries like three times, dies. I tried once, got caught behind the stairs, tried again and ran around in circles for about 10 minutes taking tiny slices of health here and there before I overran myself and got Fus Ro Dahed into a corner. So... my 8yo wants a go, fights once, gets a feel for it, dies, tehn takes him out in about 2 minutes on her second try. My 21yo GAMER picked her jaw up off the floor as I high-fived my little one. The 21yo had been stuck there for MONTHS.

I'm pretty much in the same boat. I mainly play Skyrim to roleplay (No guilds at all) and if I want to enjoy story/dialoge I'll pop in New Vegas.

This I also agree with. I play Skyrim for the continuity of the series and the progression of the story I began in Morrowind. That game did offer more substance and content. When I get my PC build I will mod Skyrim th o change it to what I want it to be to make it have more depth and options to make the sandbox world of Skyrim easier to roleplay in.