As soon as you start Skyrim, you are immediatly involved in Skyrim's Civil War and are forced to choose sides. If you choose the Stormcloaks, then you made the right decision and acted on honor and integrity. The Empire, at the beginning of Skyrim, was trying to execute your character, a presumably innocent bystander, in order to enforce their corrupt laws estabished by the Thalmor. The Empire are nothing but the puppets of the Thalmor, too weak to protect themselves, their people, and their faith. So are the Stormcloaks, or rather Ulfric. Remember he was captured by the Thalmor at one point and it is heavily implied the they planted the idea of rebellion in his head. Divide and conquer, basic military strategy. Get your enemy to start fighting each other, and swoop in after one side has destroyed the other, or they stop fighting because all resources have been exhausted. You never offer a treaty to someone if you are perfectly capable of beating them completely and then forcing them to do something, so the White Gold Concordant was the Thalmor way of biding time until they could weaken the Empire. The events in Skyrim is probably just one of many ways of doing so. Talos, who in Elder Scrolls Lore is actually a God, united all of Tamriel and ascended to godhood. The jealous Thalmor made Talos worship punishable by death in order to preserve their elven superiority. Actually, before Talos was raised to godhood there were only 8 Divines. This was simply a return to the Alessian Pantheon established at the beginning of the second Era. The corruption of the empire is seen immediatly when that Imperial Officer orders you to the headsman's block without mercy or consideration of your innocence. You are sent to the block because you were caught with a stormcloak patrol, with Ulfric no less. They cannot verify that you are not really one of them, so they are forced to execute you to be sure. But I'm with you there that the reasoning is still a little sketchy. Standing with Ulfric and the Stormcloaks is the right decision because you are ultimatly overthrowing a corrupt empire in order to overthrow the tyranni of the Aldmeri Dominion and safeguarding Skyrim from oppression as Ysgramor did before you. Even though the Stormcloaks are racist against non-nords at the beginning, the Empire is much worse because the Aldmeri Dominion are willing to order ethnic cleansings to ensure that Mer are the dominant race. The Stormcloaks force the Dark Elves to live in a slum because they are foreigners. Guards get away with extortion and bullying against other races. The Empire has created a system of near equality for all the races, or did before the Great War. The Thalmor want to see the Mer on top, they don't hide that. When push comes to shove, the Empire will be the greatest enemy they have. If you are a race other than Nord and complete the Stormcloak campaign, you basically prove to all of Skyrim that the other races are not inferior and must be treated with respect. They don't give a crap if you fight for the Stormcloaks. Nothing changes in their view, you just become an exception. Ulfric Stormcloak killed Toryg in fair combat. Toryg could have declined the dual and stepped down from the throw if he chose it. Ulfric misused the Voice. It is not a tool to be used to gain power or influence, it is a gift that is meant to be used to protect. It would be like bringing a gun to a fist fight, you just don't do it. Ulfric knew that, and so did the rest of Skyrim. That is why he called a murderer, because he brought the Voice to what was supposed to be a regular duel. Rogvir was still executed to opening the door for Ulfric even though niether Ulfric nor Rogvir committed a crime. In conclusion, supporting the Stormcloaks is not treason. How can it be treason when the Thalmor(and the twisted remnants of the Empire) are not sovereign over Skyrim?

The Stormcloaks have fever resources than the Empire, but by using guerille warfare they have been able to keep the Civil War in a stalemate against perhaps the most skilled general in the Imperial Army(judging by the fact that the Emperor send him to solve problems).

The Imperials and the Stormcloaks are the same one and all.

Come to think of it....The Great War is sort of like the Alamo Davy Crockett, Will Travis, and all the other brave soldiers that died that day. Santanna was later defeated by Houston cause the Mexicans were having their midday siesta (like they do).

If the Stormcloaks would realize a mutual combative advantage of ending the war (faking a loss) and rebuilding itself then later joining forces with the Imperial legion in its assualt/defense against the Aldmeri Dominion, which will strike again, rallying themselves together they could both take the Thalmor by surprise and win.

The legion from FNV is like the Empire and the Thalmor...so whats ur point.

The Imperials and the Stormcloaks are the same one and all.

Come to think of it....The Great War is sort of like the Alamo Davy Crockett, Will Travis, and all the other brave soldiers that died that day. Santanna was later defeated by Houston cause the Mexicans were having their midday siesta (like they do).

If the Stormcloaks would realize a mutual combative advantage of ending the war (faking a loss) and rebuilding itself then later joining forces with the Imperial legion in its assualt/defense against the Aldmeri Dominion, which will strike again, rallying themselves together they could both take the Thalmor by surprise and win.

I personally think that it should be more like mass effect , but ill save the ammo for another time when i actually kindle the discussion. any ideas for a catchy title?

It was fair. It was the only way to deal with Torygg. He gave him the option to forfeit his crown and he didnt. He chose open combat. Ulfric used his superior abilities to best Torygg.

He still made the choice to accept Ulfric's duel as opposed to surrendering his title. Choices have consequences but it was for the betterment of skyrim.

The legion from FNV is like the Empire and the Thalmor...so whats ur point.

The legion from FNV is like the Empire and the Thalmor...so whats ur point.

Exactly this. If Stormcloaks actually realize the fact that the Empire are planning to fight back against the Thalmor then they would actually be able to get their way in Skyrim. Take the fight to the Thalmor instead of the Empire. Fighting the Empire isn't going to change anything in the long run, with the Dominion still being present. Siding with the Empire, and bringing peace back to Skyrim, they can focus more on the Thalmor.

Caesar's Legion is nothing like the Empire, at all.

He didn't know it wouldn't be a fair fight. It's like Superman challenging a random guy to an arm wrestle as Clarke Kent

You seem to be neglecting the whole part about people being yanked out of their homes and marched off to be tortured and killed. And the part about how the Empire either can't or won't do anything about it. Which in the eyes of those whose families are being torn apart, that makes the Empire rather less than useless. Yeah you know, murdering peoples' families tends to get them pretty pissed off, dontcha think?.

Again, what are your thoughts about the Srebrenica Massacre? Real life example.

And to Griffix4, Ulfric doesnt fight for Ulfric. Ulfric fights for Skyrim.

It was fair. It was the only way to deal with Torygg. He gave him the option to forfeit his crown and he didnt. He chose open combat. Ulfric used his superior abilities to best Torygg.

The Empire is much closer to the NCR.

To the Mass Effect thing, no i mean dynamic character interaction and more developed party members and npcs as opposed to having 60 potential followers with as much personality as a cabbage.

Still Ulfric betrayed Thorygg's loyalty. It is a fact that Thorygg had a lot of respect for Ulf, but his fault was to be the most important and respected man in Skyrim, and even beyond. If Ulf would have gone to the throne, the Thalmor would have been slightly scared, thus having a chance to make them free from Skyrim like Hammerfell did, but again, Ulf should have done it with Thor, not by himself alone. At least this is what I believe.

The empire is willing to allow their people to be swallowed by the Thalmor for Talos worship ultimatly leading to torment and death will the Stormcloaks support freedom of the Nords from their Aldmeri oppressors. He refuses to sacrifice his beliefs and traditions to a government entitiy just because they "say so"

Playing as a race other than Nords (especially one of the Beast folk or elves) and siding with the Stormcloaks would be like playing as a Good Karma woman in FNV and siding with the Legion. It just doesn't make any sense.


EDIT: After posting this I noticed that there are 5 pages of discussion. I feel dumb now. Forgive me guys, I've been up the past three days now playing Skyrim. (I accidentally deleted my entire Skyrim folder on the 360, 1100 hours out the window).