No, I'm not bashing ESO's graphics, I found them to be stunning, but by how much? There's been a tremendous improvement in graphics in the MMO industry in the last few years, and I'm not sure where ESO falls in that aspect. Do you think ZOS will lead the way with graphical improvements, or should we expect them to do bare minimum of what would be considered good graphics?

I will warn you before hand that I'm not only a ESO fan boy, but also an ArcheAge and FFXIV lover. I'd ask that you refrain from arguing on how "asian" these MMOs are, and only focus on the graphics part. Now, I've only experienced one of these two games, as I don't have proof of South Korean residency, but the one I have played, I can tell in great detail. As FFXIV has partially lifted its NDA to the point that I can now post screenshots, and reveal that I am in beta, I will share some spectacular screenies.

FFXIV ARR:

ArcheAge:

There's several other upcoming/recent MMOs I can't recall off the top of my head that also have fantastic graphics. Again, the question is whether or not ESO will be at the top, near it, or at the bottom. I personally think in the videos/screenshots they've shown us, if that's there best, it puts them somewhere in the middle, and nowhere near the top as far as MMO graphics goes. Try not to see it with rose colored glasses, ESO really doesn't look to be at the top. Does it need to be? Probably not, but it always could be. For a game trying to give immersion, graphics sure helps, no matter your definition of immersion.

I tend to post something and go to bed for whatever reason, so see you in the morning, try not to troll too much .

Well..
It's stylized different. I don't know where I would put that, because it's the best for its function of hundreds of players onscreen at a time

Stylished art style (or "cartoon style" like some say) is better in my opinion because it doesn't look old as fast as "photo realism" graphics do.

Pretty much.

depends on your POV I guess:

I'm pretty sure ESO won't have the best detailed models and high-res textures of all times.

yet it's true and you can see 200+ players on screen lag-free, ESO would set new standards.

Graphics never been that important. They're good enough. Sure you can throw the "OMG Battlefield is the bestest" card but the fact is EA spend 4 time more money on marketing than actual game. For example. Skyrim graphics arent that good but the game sold a ton and people loved it. I'd almost bet same thing happens with GTA5 in the future, GTA5 is gonna be a game where players learn to love the graphics.

Very true, ESO has to make sacrifices for 200 people on one screen, but do you need to design an entire game around at most 5% of the game? I don't see why it can't scale down during those times. Is there something about game engines I have no clue about, or is designing good graphics + the ability to have multiple people on one screen with scaled down graphics for high stress loads impossible? Do you need to design the entire game engine to be able to handle the max load at any given time?

FFXIV is crowded as heck, even 100 players isn't uncommon. I100+ people fighting + animations + abilities being flung around is what's important, but we have no idea how big of an area this 200 person battle environment is. I'm assuming it's meant for flat out 100 vs. 100 colliding in a massive epic battle, in a fairly closed space, under one load screen.

I'm having a brain fart, did DAoC have 200 person battles, and what were graphics like for other games during that time? I'm no programming expert, so I can't wrap my head around graphics being a constraint with 200 person battles when there's a way to scale graphics to that cartoon style during the 200 person battles.

I'd like to point out that I don't have unrealistic expectations for ESO, I don't expect it to be near the top at all, and I agree, sacrifices need to be made for fantastic large-scale PvP, just trying to piece together how much can they get away with, and what's an acceptable tradeoff.

The gfx in those are alright, nothing really remotely special.

But on a side note,....that korean/japanese artstyle makes me want to vomit.

The character models have a lot more work put in to them in those games than in ESO. The clothes/armor are a lot better quality than what we have seen in ESO screenshots but everything else. Not really. Ground textures aren't that great and that axe in archeage looks pretty awful to be honest. I think they might have larger view distance but I don't see anything else being better than ESO

True dat.

Aye, same here and after ESO is out I'll probably never play a game in that style again.