*EDIT*

To clarify, the concept is not of a "One-shot-kill". It's completely dependent upon if the strike bypasses your defenses (armor, shield, ward). If it does, then one strike can kill. If it doesn't, no harm done.

*END EDIT*


I'm trying to figure out how to make the actual damage model more realistic. Basically, if you get sliced deeply by a sword, your pretty much done for. I'm also hoping to make armor much more protective in order to avoid getting sliced open.

I'm just wondering if there are others out there who would even like to try to play Skyrim in such a way?

My modded armor gives -4,000,000 armor rating and my bow does 500,000,000 damage ATM.

not really, no... the combat system wasn't exactly designed with that in mind. Besides, if an arrow to the knee killed you, who would guard the towns?

I guess there are. It would give it a 'Dark Souls Difficulty', not to mention more realistic. Not everyone will like it though, most players prefer a good challenge BUT also a fun at the same time, and being as realistic as dying with 2 arrows or 1 or 2 sword slashes can be tedious. Others see it as PURE CHALLENGE. They call themselves 'hardcoe gamers'. I'm sure those gamers will like it, because to those gamers, the more difficult, the more fun it is.

How would you deal with leveling though? I mean, at level 1 you'll die with 1 or 2 sword slashes, but what about level 20? Will you still be dying with 1 or 2 sword slashes?

Skyrim is not accurate enough in its collision detection and overall "fairness" to make this sort of play-style fun.

You can't really "dodge" or defend against everything. For example, Dragon's never miss. You cant dodge a dragon. You have to get hit and chug potions, it's part of the game model.

You also cant realistically dodge magic after you close the distance up until a certain point.

For it to work and be fun, you have to find ways to make the game less "cheap": Lower enemy tracking abilities(dragons most notably), make it possible to dodge moves, really good defensive options
(much better blocking), and I think most importantly: Make it so t hat when an enemy commits to an attack, they REALLY are committing to it. Not changing trajectory during/at the last minute. Or at least if
they can change trajectory, it needs to be at a very slow turning rate (allowing you to counter if they dont stop doing that attack).

Skyrim doesn't feel "cheap" since you take like 0 damage from everything, but it is VERY "cheap" and unfair. The reason everything can hit you, but you take 0 damage is to make you feel more like a huge
juggernaut which is, again, part of the game model.

There's definitely ways to do it (you've read my Dark Souls thread so you probably know what I"m talking about), but it will take a lot of tweaking.

I think a "realistic" combat mod would be good on paper, but in practice would just be frustrating.

Use a modifer along the lines of 4x for everything.

4x weapon damage
4x spell damage
4x potion effectiveness
4x poison effectiveness
4x healing effectiveness

You'll have to play around with the global settings to get the right fit, but it makes combat way more interesting, when a few solid hits from a big sword will kill you.

I did this for Oblivion and it was awesome.

Realistic and fun (in games) aren't always the same things for sure. But, you can definitely make the combat in this game more "fun" and more "realistic" without being frustrating at all.

Ok, I guess I misspoke. I meant realistic damage. Clearly, if in reality I swing a big steel hammer and hit someone on the head, they will likely die from a single hit. While on the surface it may sound cool to do that, I think in practice it would just make the game far too frustrating to enjoy playing.

Also, I think having high armor ratings would do the opposite towards realism wouldn't it? I know I refer to it a lot, but I think the maker of Dark Souls said it really well. He said:

Btw: The spoiler info isnt necessary, but I left it in case you wanted to read it. But the second paragraph was what I was referring to.

Hahaha, but did you give all the NPC's the same armor and bow? ;-P



Very true. Though I've heard rumors of there being an ability to create new combat systems. I fear I can't recall his name, but one person created a Mount & Blade combat system for the Oblivion MERP project.



Pretty much. I would view leveling as more of your equipment, similar to Mount & Blade. The key factor there was what kind of armor and weaponry you used. Though leveling skills/perks could also be added to the mix.

Again, the tougher the armor you wear, the more destructive the weapon will have to be to punch through it... at least consistently. I never have cared for the Absorb % of Damage way the armor works in TES. I'd prefer it to be more of Success % of Strike. If the strike succeeds, all of the damage is applied. If it fails, no damage is applied.



Also true. Blocking would become a necessity in melee (and even magic) combat. But I am also hoping for locational damage to be implemented by the community. It will make everything a lot more logical than how I'm thinking of implementing it at the moment.


Ps. Thank you for all the replies!

One-hit kill? No. Realistic enough mod for Skyrim? Yes.

This could be a whole 'nother thread. The games are revolved around potions and magicka, even if you choose not to use them, that's part of what the role-playing aspect is about. What comes to my mind is each arrow you take your body would incrementally slow you down until they're removed. Swords will make you bleed out naturally and the perks would just increase this against others. Maces, when having damaged a limb hard enough (such as right arm) would disable your right arm for a little while or when you heal it (out of combat). You would limp if you take damage to one of your legs much like Fallout 3/NV. Axes would have both the bleed out and limb damage, but much weaker compared to Blades and Blunts. The list goes on, but as I said, that's another thread!

Your best bet is to modify the weapons or armor accordingly to what's close to real or not when it comes to a fantasy game if that's all you're going for.

This game cheats way too much to have a One-Hit-Kill mod added to it.
Psychic Teleporting Enemies that aren't even aware of my presence because I'm sneaking, yet they just "slide" out of the way when my arrow is launched.?
Enemies who never miss?
Enemies who can endlessly Spam Ice Bolt

The only games that should have one-hit-kills are games like Rainbow Six.
Because at least the enemies are on the same footing and don't have 'cheap' advantages over you.

Yes, that's much more in line with what I would like to do. One locational damage is implemented, I would love to do that. I'm also imagining bleeding effects for cuts instead of insta-kills... so healing potions/magic would still be of use. In fact, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1299411-concept-damage-overhaul-not-tactics/ is what I really want... along with http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1335946-wip-damage-types-cutbluntpierce/.

And I suppose I should have changed the way I worded the title/question. It's not so much "one-shot-kill" as it is "one-shot-that-gets-through-your-defenses-kill". Again, armor will be TOUGH. An iron dagger is NOT going to get through Daedric armor. Not much would really. But if you wear leather, you're asking for trouble.

Aye. You got the right idea. I was also going to add arrows can pierce through weaker shields, be them fur/leather or any with wood on them, but pure solid ones and higher level shields block them. Things like that.

It will be tough to get everything working in such a proper balance, but I would play this mod definitely.

Not a one-hit-kill mod, no.

I'd play a limb damage mod ala Fallout 3.

I'd play a hardcoe-esque mod that made it easier to die and kill NPC's, putting it on a realistic level.

But one-hit-kill would be frustrating, murder on your save file, and not very rewarding in the long run. That, and Skyrim isn't a FPS.

By engaging in melee combat at least some of the time, you're going to take a few hits here and there regardless of what you do/don't do. Plus, even if you stick with ranged, you're still going to have to take a decent amount of damage from spells, NPC's closing the distance, and ranged attacks.

No they have the normal stuff but my bow can 1 shot anything and if I am hit with anything non magic I die so it is a 1 hit 1 kill for the most part

My poor mage already get oneshotted by certain mobs. Trick is to blast em from far away

I would certainly try it. The beauty of mods is that you can take them out any time you want.

For there is no realism because nothing can see me when I sneek even if I am right next to them.

Oops, I edited the original post to clarify.

The "one-shot-kill" can only take effect if the strike breaches your defenses. You're probably going to take a lot of hits in the game no matter what, but the results would completely depend on your armor and if you block. If you're wearing full Daedric, you may survive a thousand hits from anything but the most devastating weapons. If you're wearing steel, you have a good shot to not take a fatal strike long enough to deal one out. If you go naked with only a sword, you're most likely going to die from anything that hits you... unless you learn to block everything. Blocking/parrying can be a life saver!



That is a shame... and hopefully others will fix that with their mods. This mod, however, would at least give the guy who is oblivious a chance to survive... assuming he's got tough enough armor to deflect your initial strike. If so, all you did was tick him off ;-P

I would say, "No."

But let me explain why: In real life, not every hit is going to kill you, even if you don't block. In fact, MOST hits won't immediately kill you because the body is a lot more resilient than you'd think, and out there in Skyrim, we've got orcs with thick skin and Nords who can weather the nastiest snow storms with nothing more than a bearskin cloak. This mod would completely wipe out any reason to pick a race with a high resistance to something because it would no longer matter.

The best way to try and incorporate a "realistic" damage mod would be to figure out how to make hits against specific body parts, but since I doubt the new engine is going to have that capability, that may not be possible.

Another way would be to do some serious, hard-core scripting that would take a given damage type (based on weapon or spell), and the amount of damage done versus Health or Energy (since we no longer have such things like "Endurance" or "agility"), and, of course, your race.

Critical hits might be able to kill you, similuating massive shots to the head or torso. Sub-critical might apply special affects (like being stunned, ears ringing, difficulty seeing, etc.) Normal hits may apply a bleeder effect or just do normal damage. It all depends on what hit you and how hard, and how your race would respond to that.

Just an idea, though.

Indeed, the body is resilient, though weapons such as swords are made to kill. One good slash to the torso won't kill you immediately, but you will most likely bleed out soon enough unless treated quickly. Racial resistances are still useful for magic... just as armor provides resistances to types of weapon damage. But all playable races should still be rather "squishy" against weapons of warfare. Even orc skin won't stop a blade as far as I'm aware. That's why the best armor should be sought after... so almost nothing will kill you

And I am definitely hoping for locational damage soon! Everything will be much more sensible in that case!

I play something like this already. I never take health at level-ups, i wear basic fur armor only, and I have PISE installed and some other mods that make it so 1 minor hit removes 70% of my health. Melee hits from dragons and the like kill me in a single blow. I just wish I had a working mod that made my non-stealt hits land nearly as hard. IMO, the AI is a little too easy to hit for that to be much fun. Would need to make some new combat features that burned up stamina instead of health to make it work properly.

I would if the game could be rebalanced and a bit rewritten on the combat. What I refer to is locational damage. Taking a hit on your arm shouldn't have the same damage modifier as your throat for example. This goes for you AND enemies. You'd also have to rebalance and change mechanics for various weapon types. Axes, Hammers, Swords, Daggers, Bows and Magic, so that they all have their positives and negatives. There shouldn't be a reason not to pick Swords since Axes are obviously better, and same goes for Swords over Daggers and so on. In stealth there wouldn't be a reason to use a dagger any longer if a sword or whatever could do enough damage to go through armor, which it would with the modifiers.

Hammers would lend such massive force that it'd probably outdamage all other weapons, so there would be little reason to pick anything else. So again, you'll have to rebalance a lot of it. Perhaps not even make it so it's one-hit-kill exactly, but like I said, rather locational damage. If the weapon DOES bypass your armor you instead take a sagnificant amount of damage rather than an instant guaranteed kill, possibly even add so that if you'll take a blow to your leg you'll start to limp. Arms, unable you to do power attacks, and so on.

Another thing to pay attention to is also perks. The damage perks would have to be tweaked a lot, as well as the weapon-perks for certain weapon types. Bleed for axes, armor penetration for maces, critical hits for swords and as well as daggers. Also give a reason to pick Magic over Weapons, since being a mage would make the game nearly impossible otherwise if you're a clothuser, thus making magic extremely weak in comparison to any close combat weapon or arrows. They would need some rework.

I could go on and on about this, but I WOULD play it if it was very, VERY well made. It would require a very large amount of work however, with a lot of attention to game balance and scaling versus several mobs. Don't forget them dragons.

Edit: A good idea would also be to actually give certain "feats" to certain weapons. Not types but weapons themselves. Silver, Iron, Steel, Daedric, Ebony, Glass and so on could have their own unique effect and what they specialize at in order to make weapons more interesting and useful, perhaps even change the 'damage' modifiers entirely, remove them and replace with unique effects or such, otherwise I believe you'd lose the reason to actually upgrade your gear if not done correctly.