I have been granted permission to open this topic by the mods so no:"Hey, you already have a fan-fic or rp running."

This topic is specifically to discuss grammar, spelling etc. Basically everything to do with writing a fan-fic or rp. I will emphasize: IT IS NOT A GENERAL DISCUSSION!
This could also be the topic to post little snippets/ideas/short stories so you don't have the problem of already having a topic running. Be aware that you won't get replies like "good job!" etc.
It's more a sharing and discussing ideas thing. Maybe you get stuck with a certain paragraph, you can post it here so fellow writers can give you ideas or comment what to change.

Rules:
No spamming
No flaming
If you have nothing sensible/constructive to add to the discussion, please don't.
No advertising your own personal fan-fic. Posts like that will be removed.
Keep it friendly

I think this could be a very helpful thread for starting/aspiring writers.

I'll start off.
I'd like to ask you all to write down mood indicators. I always have trouble finding suitable words to describe an expression on someone's face or mood indicators. For example: the word exuberant (sp?). I have no idea what it indicates. Same with exasperate. What is the meaning? What is your mood if you exasperate? There are countless words like that I'd like to use but don't know how.

I use Google for that. You simply type define: followed by the word you are checking out.
It works similarly with synonyms. You type in Google synonym and then the word you are looking for. No colon behind synonym.


Sometimes I use 'grudgingly' when someone is in a bad mood. Does this count?

Re- mood indicators:

First- Truth in Advertising- I tend to over-use adverbs (think "words ending in -ly"), so....

Examples- "I am sure I don't know," he said (stiffly, slowly, carefully).

She replied in a low voice: "I was only trying to help."

"What kind of idiot does something like that?" he grumbled.

This is a great idea RemkoNL! I could really learn from a thread like this, I get hit on grammer and punctuation a lot!

Mood words:

I have trouble with this too, it involves showing, not telling - an area I struggle with, so I am looking forward to reading the answers here too.

First of all, read Illusionary Nothing's guide.

Secondly, don't aim for Tavern RP's, they never work out (well.)

@Zalphon: You're missing the point m8. This is NOT a tavern RP.
Reading isn't discussing, your post isn't helpful at all.

@Trey: that's the kinda help I was looking for. I have already learned a thing. I know what an adverb is :twirl:

@Peleus: Absolutely! Although I'd say grudgingly would be used when you (are forced to) do something you'd rather not. Or is that reluctantly? I feel grudgingly and reluctantly have a certain overlap (for lack of a better word)

One thing that I know Acadian has pointed out before in some folks' stories:

The proper use of "it's."

It's (with the apostrophe) is a contraction of the words "it is." Other contractions are "can't" for "cannot," "don't" for "do not," etc,

Its- (no apostrophe) is the possessive- "belonging to it."

Examples-

"It's raining out." CORRECT

"The scamp grabbed its head and screamed." CORRECT

"It's mouth gaped wide, jaws studded with pointed teeth." INCORRECT

Another question: what do you call the cousin of your father/mother? In my fan-fic, I am writing about a member of the Sarethi family returning home. Athyn Sarethi is his mother's cousin. What is he to my character?

Different cultures have different ways of describing this. The generic "cousin" is correct, if not detailed. The absolute term would be "first cousin, once removed."

A similar situation is that of an "aunt" or "uncle." Often this honorific is used for a person who is not a blood-relation, but is a close family friend, usually of the parents' generation or older.

I think I'll stick with cousin. First cousin seems very formal to me.

Reluctantly was a confusing word to me. I thought it meant, "after some thought". It actually means a person didn't or failed to; do, achieve, complete, or agree with something.

As:

In the final vote, Jerry was reluctant in submitting an answer. (Is this correct?)

I also hate the text I'm suppose to put after dialogue.
Example:

"I can't stand graqefruit." She said. I always want to put either exclaimed, said, replied, responded, whispered, mumbled, grumbled, shouted, screamed, whined. But for some reason, even after listing all these words, it doesn't feel like enough. I even go as far as not putting anything after the dialogue. Or just simply going on with what the character may be doing as far as motion goes.
Example:

"I can't stand graqefruit." She tossed the fruit behind her with a grimace. Sometimes this sounds pretty good when text-after-dialogue becomes too frequent.

I always find dialogue tags hard. Especially in avoiding using the same one over and over and over and over.
Actually, the example with the graqefruit was a very good one.


I think it is.

Who asked about Aposrophes? And I am not trying to be patronising at all, if I sound that way Im really sorry, I'm just trying to explain it as basically as possible to try and make it un confusing. I know a lot of people have trouble with them but it basically works as treydog said, although the way I remember it is;

Can this word become two words? (I'm going to steal treydog's examples )

It's raining outside.
It's has an apostrophe because it can become two words:

It is raining outside.
This works as a sentence, so you can feel good about correctly using an apostrophe here

And now when it's (<--- lol it is ) inccorect to use an apostrophe:

The scamp grabbed its head and screamed.
Can it be split into 2 words?

The scamp grabbed it is head and screamed
The basic rule of apostrophes is if the word can be split into two words then you put an apostrophe in there

Examples:

Can't = Can not (or cannot as one word)
Don't = Do not
Wouldn't = Would not
Shouldn't = Should not
Couldn't = Could not

And now the slightly more confusing part.
If you are talking about the posession of someone, the someone gets an apostrophe after their name.

Examples:

It was Charlie's book. (Charlie is the someone and the book is his posession)

"Put Sarah's glasses down!" (Sarah is the someone and the glasses are her posession)

This also works in other instances, for example:

It was all Charlie's fault.
in this instance the word 'fault' acts like a posession. Basically when the name of someone is used you put an apostrphe between their name and the S. But there are exceptions to this rule as there always are in the english language.

I'll just mention one other thing that I really struggled with, I don't know about anyone else but I'll say it just in case someone finds it useful.
I could not work out the difference between effect and affect it's very difficult to explain the difference but I'll have a go.

The word effect is used when describing the atmosphere of a situation;

As he entered the room the lightning struck a tree behind him, although he was not really one for drama, the effect really helped his 'bad guy' charade.

Mist floated about the mansion, adding to the spooky effect

An effect helps set the mood to something whether it's writing or a film or a play, but as I said before, if it is helping to set the mood then an effect is something that changes the atmosphere. If a director wants to show a character has depressed in a film he might have the colours of the film dulled down so they don't seem as bright. And a veiwer might say "I liked the visual effect the director used at that point in the film."

The word affect on the other hand is much more personal, you use it when saying how something will has an impact on a person.

"I think it affected her pretty well to be honest."


Affect = when talking about a person
Effect = when talking about something that adds to the mood of a situation.

I don't know if any of that was helpful to anyone, but I just thought I'd explain as simply as possible.

I think you got it wrong here:

I think it should be effect. There is an effect (The lack of sleep affecting him) making him ill.

I just don't use them much. I set up what the characters are generally doing, and people can judge the tone based on what they say. Often times anyway.

I'm always trying to move too quickly in stories, and I get annoyed when I get bogged down. There's things that need to be explained and all, but I write the ending before most other things. Not that I don't change around a few things as the story progresses, but with a clear ending in sight to me, I just want to get there.

Another thing is battle scenes. They usually just reflect the tone of the story I'm writing, and I don't often make them seem very epic. I've been meaning to sometime do that. So far, most of the fights in my stories are quick and brutal, with people losing very quickly. The good knights are the good knights because they kill quickly, not honorably.

Great idea for a thread RemkoNL.

I find my most handy resource these days is http://dictionary.reference.com/. If you have firefox you can add it to your search bar. It also has a sister, http://thesaurus.reference.com/.


Also, http://mrbraiman.home.att.net/page13.html is a good article on writing dialogue, and http://mrbraiman.home.att.net/page25.html for using punctuation and speech tags in dialogue.

The only exception for what you said half tooth:

If the you're talking about possesive, and are trying to explain that something belongs to someone else, if the word end in 's', remember to just add an apostrophe.

For example:

I think Sirus(') pet dog is allergic to grass.

Also, I've seen the following misused frequently.

It would of been great to go see Eagle's Eye.
would've
The of cannot remain as it's improper.

The important thing to remember, is that some writers may do things that aren't grammatically correct, in order to get a certain response from readers.

For example:(And this may be difficult to do but...)

"I ain't doin' it!" Stevie objected. He frowned at the group of us and dropped the plastic bag he was carrying beside his feet.

Sometimes it's ok to put an accent or mispell words whilst using dialogue. By putting "aint" instead of "I'm not", the reader can determine that the person speaking has a country accent. Or that of someone who's uneducated.

Well in speech it's a different story, you can make them sound however you want and spell thing wrong deliberately like if you want them to have a french accent or something.

Thank's for correcting me there I knew I'd forget some stuff.

And Thanks RemKoNL, I didn't notice that I was struggling to think of a different example but you are right that should be effect, I'll just go and change that.

This is advice, Remon, not telling you not to do this.

Illusionaries guide doesnt cover anything of this subject (or at least not in depth) Please read the Ops of the threads you post in before you do so.

I've got a couple books on basic grammar rules... they can usually be found in either the "reference" or the "writing and publishing" section at any local bookstore.

One word of advice: do not trust your word program's grammar and spelling check to write for you. It's fine for catching typos, but the average fourth grader is smarter and more nuanced than a computer checker. If you're unsure of something, look it up.

Re: mood indicators...

The best way to learn words you don't know is to come upon them while reading. That way, you can learn them in context. (This is one of the main reasons why I always push reading regularly as a way to improve your writing). Generally, if you pull up a word you don't know on a thesaurus or something, you probably shouldn't use it. Most words, even (especially!) synonyms of words you know, are likely to have connotations that you don't intend.

So, if you want to expand your vocabulary, read read read. That's really the only way I know of to be sure.

Re: reluctantly vs grudgingly...

These two words are synonyms... they mean generally the same thing, but have subtle connotations that are slightly different. Both are verbs that indicate someone doing something they don't want to. "Grudging", however, is usually more aggressive. It may involve anger or resentment... as in, "to bear a grudge." Reluctantly is somewhat more passive, perhaps involving hesitation, or the subject thinking better of the action but having been persuaded to do it anyway.

Re: dialogue tags...

This is actually one of my shaky points. I really dislike the word "said" because it's so generic. So I tend to use too many adverbs or descriptive dialogue tags, to the point that it's distracting. So I find I do what Lord Dren suggested... I skip an explicit dialogue tag altogether, and simply add a line of action to indicate who was speaking instead. It's so satisfying, it feels like cheating. :twirl:

Re: effect vs affect

The easy way to remember it is this:

"Effect" is the noun.

"Affect" is the verb.

Period.

Re: "Would of"

I'm sure if Lord Dren was using this as sheerly an example, but I just need to comment on this, because I'm just that nitpicky. "Would of" is not grammatically correct. The correct phrase is "would have." "Would of" should only ever be written as dialogue from a character who might use such vernacular.

That said, I'm a heavy fan of improper grammar in dialogue, as long as it's on purpose. After all, it says something about the character... a simple "ain't" or "y'all" can say a lot about where the character comes from. It's all part of establishing a character's voice.


Hrm. Now I feel silly, coming out of the ether and not really contributing anything new to the discussion. Ah well... good idea for a thread, RemkoNL. I hope it sticks around. :goodjob:

Firstly, wonderful idea for a thread RemkoNL. :goodjob:

treydog was helping me just today, and I think I understand better, but I am still confused somewhat on when to use lay vs lie.

The research I did suggests use lay when you have a direct subject. I get 'lay it on me' or 'go lie down' but I still admit to some confusion: The body lay/lie in a field of grass? I would appreciate any clarification, and suspect I may not be the only one to lack complete mastery of this question....

Acadian, http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/lay-versus-lie.aspx actually has a pretty good explanation of lay vs lie.



She goes on to point out the very confusing fact that "lay" is also the past tense of "lie" ... and the past tense of "lay" is "laid." That's where a lot of confusion comes in.

So in the case of "The body lay/lie in the grassy field," they'd both be grammatically correct, but in different tenses. There's no direct object, so you know you want the base to be "lie." Except, if the narrative tense is in past tense, you'll want to use "lay" because it's the past tense of lie.

Present tense: "The body lie in the grassy field."

Past tense: "The body lay in the grassy field."

Yeah, I still get confused over that one sometimes too.

Oh yes! Everytime I use 'lie' I have to go check up on Wiktionary just to see if I didn't do something really wrong.

My weak point is also 'hair'. Hair is or hair are? I could never tell that one.

I am glad to see this topic turns out as I had intended. A topic for discussing issues writers come across. Thank you all!


I was thinking about it while I rode from work yesterday and came to the same conclusion.

Hair "is" not "are"
However; I pulled two hairs out. They were turning grey