It doesn't recalculate attributes. For attributes, all it does is increment them from current values according to what you choose. E.g. if you add 5 points to willpower, then you just get your current willpower bumped by 5. Skills are advanced through advancePCSkill.

The only complication is health, and even that is handled simply: For each level up, health is increased by curEndurance/10 (where curEndurance includes any changes that you've just made to it.). Only flaw there is that I should be using fStatsHealthMult GMST instead of a hardcoded 1/10. (I'm not sure if RBP modifies fStatsHealthMult, but it probably does.)

Let me know if fixing that will help, and if so I'll do an update release.

This might be beside the point depending on how RBP does retroactive health. If it does a continuous monitor on the player's endurance and sets health accordingly, then it will just overwrite what Wrye Leveling does anyway.

I couldn't find any reference to fStatsHealthMult under any RBP.esp (using TES4View). However...

According to TES4View/Edit, the RBP makes no changes to fStatsHealthStartMult (Not sure if this was what you meant but I think this is what multiplies your endurance by two to give your starting health. So I doubt you meant this GMST.).

Based on what I've seen from the RBP.esp these are the two scripts remotely related to health (I could be wrong).

Scriptname bgbEnduranceScriptshort dooncefloat fQuestDelayTimefloat basefactorfloat prehealthfloat posthealthfloat enduranceplusfloat levelfactorfloat endurancefactorfloat LevelDiminishfactorshort LevelDiminishfactorStageShort ConstitutionShort Lvlbegin GameModeif ( doonce != 1 )	set doonce to 1	set basefactor to 1.0	set fQuestDelayTime to 0.01	set prehealth to -1endif;I don't know why this only works with this global. Thanks again for all people who have helped me to make this script work. Especially Lazarus;Set Constitution to player.getbaseav,"endurance"Set Lvl to player.getlevelset enduranceplus to PCEnduranceif ( enduranceplus == 0 )	set enduranceplus to player.getbaseactorvalue enduranceendifset endurancefactor to  basefactor * player.getbaseav enduranceset endurancefactor to endurancefactor + (1.0 - basefactor) * enduranceplus;Adding a factor to take into account that normally you can't have an Endurance of 100 at level 1;;BTW, this is nearly exactly how the Quest Award Leveller works. I said it was Quarn's idea, didn't I;if Lvl >= 16 && Constitution >= 100 && LevelDiminishfactorStage <= 15  Set LevelDiminishfactor to 40  Set LevelDiminishfactorStage to 15elseif Lvl >= 15 && Constitution >= 97 && LevelDiminishfactorStage <= 14  Set LevelDiminishfactor to 37  Set LevelDiminishfactorStage to 14elseif Lvl >= 14 && Constitution >= 94 && LevelDiminishfactorStage <= 13  Set LevelDiminishfactor to 34  Set LevelDiminishfactorStage to 13elseif Lvl >= 13 && Constitution >= 91 && LevelDiminishfactorStage <= 12  Set LevelDiminishfactor to 31  Set LevelDiminishfactorStage to 12elseif Lvl >= 12 && Constitution >= 88 && LevelDiminishfactorStage <= 11  Set LevelDiminishfactor to 28  Set LevelDiminishfactorStage to 11elseif Lvl >= 11 && Constitution >= 85 && LevelDiminishfactorStage <= 10  Set LevelDiminishfactor to 25  Set LevelDiminishfactorStage to 10elseif Lvl >= 10 && Constitution >= 82 && LevelDiminishfactorStage <= 9  Set LevelDiminishfactor to 22  Set LevelDiminishfactorStage to 9elseif Lvl >= 9 && Constitution >= 79 &&LevelDiminishfactorStage <= 8  Set LevelDiminishfactor to 19  Set LevelDiminishfactorStage to 8elseif Lvl >= 8 && Constitution >= 76 && LevelDiminishfactorStage <= 7  Set LevelDiminishfactor to 16  Set LevelDiminishfactorStage to 7elseif Lvl >= 7 && Constitution >= 73 && LevelDiminishfactorStage <= 6  Set LevelDiminishfactor to 13  Set LevelDiminishfactorStage to 6elseif Lvl >= 6 && Constitution >= 70 && LevelDiminishfactorStage <= 5  Set LevelDiminishfactor to 10  Set LevelDiminishfactorStage to 5elseif Lvl >= 5 && Constitution >= 68 && LevelDiminishfactorStage <= 4  Set LevelDiminishfactor to 8  Set LevelDiminishfactorStage to 4elseif Lvl >= 4 && Constitution >= 66 && LevelDiminishfactorStage <= 3  Set LevelDiminishfactor to 6  Set LevelDiminishfactorStage to 3elseif Lvl >= 3 && Constitution >= 64 && LevelDiminishfactorStage <= 2  Set LevelDiminishfactor to 4  Set LevelDiminishfactorStage to 2elseif Lvl >= 2 && Constitution >= 62 && LevelDiminishfactorStage <= 1  Set LevelDiminishfactor to 2  Set LevelDiminishfactorStage to 1elseif Lvl < 2 || Constitution < 62 Set LevelDiminishfactor to 0endif;Modifying the default factor to take different starting endurance into account;if player.isspelltarget bgrEnduranceFragileset LevelDiminishfactor to LevelDiminishfactor * 1.50elseif player.isspelltarget bgrEnduranceWeakset LevelDiminishfactor to LevelDiminishfactor / 0.80elseif player.isspelltarget bgrEnduranceGoodset LevelDiminishfactor to LevelDiminishfactor * 0.75elseif player.isspelltarget bgrEnduranceStrongset LevelDiminishfactor to LevelDiminishfactor * 0.5endifset levelfactor to player.getlevelset levelfactor to levelfactor - 1set levelfactor to levelfactor * 0.1set levelfactor to levelfactor * endurancefactorset levelfactor to levelfactor - LevelDiminishfactorset posthealth to levelfactorif ( posthealth != prehealth )	player.setactorvalue health posthealthendifstopquest bgbenduranceend

scn bgRetroactiveEnduranceToggleQuestScriptShort ButtonShort MenuShownShort DoOnceShort ResetFloat FQuestDelayTimeBegin GameModeSet FQuestDelayTime to 0.01If Reset == 1Set DoOnce to 0Set Reset to 0Set Button to -1Set MenuShown to 0EndifIf DoOnce == 0If bgEnduranceToggleGlobal == 0MessageBox "This menu allows you to toggle retroactive Endurance on or off. Currently it's deactivated. What do you want to do?" "Keep it deactivated." "Activate it." "Cancel"Set MenuShown to 1Set Button to GetButtonPressedElseIf bgEnduranceToggleGlobal == 1MessageBox "This menu allows you to toggle retroactive Endurance on or off. Currently it's activated. What do you want to do?" "Deactivate it." "Keep it activated." "Cancel"Set MenuShown to 2EndifSet DoOnce to 1EndifIf MenuShown == 1Set Button to GetButtonPressedIf button == 0Set bgEnduranceToggleGlobal to 0Message "Retroactive Constitution is disabled."Set MenuShown to 5ElseIf button == 1Set bgEnduranceToggleGlobal to 1StartQuest bgbEnduranceMessage "Retroactive Constitution is enabled."Set MenuShown to 5ElseIf button == 2Set MenuShown to 5returnEndifEndifIf MenuShown == 2Set Button to GetButtonPressedIf button == 0Set bgEnduranceToggleGlobal to 0Message "Retroactive Constitution is disabled."Set MenuShown to 5ElseIf button == 1Set bgEnduranceToggleGlobal to 1StartQuest bgbEnduranceMessage "Retroactive Constitution is enabled."Set MenuShown to 5ElseIf button == 2Set MenuShown to 5returnEndifEndifif MenuShown == 5Set Reset to 1StopQuest bgbHealthToggleEndifEnd

From glancing over those, he bypasses the usual health calculation. I.e. the fStats gmsts are irrelevant to him because he doesn't use them in calculating health.

I wanted to bump this. I have had more fun with Wrye Levelling than any of the other progression mods I have used. If you can give up the skill usage based levelling this mod will in turn make gold valuable, enable you to experience the game at your pace, and create / maintain / and progress your character in a more traditional rpg fashion. Now all of the items seem to have real value. Saving up for a house becomes a mission and not just a matter of time.

Wrye I really hope you haven't lost interest in updating the mod. I know you are busy with COBL and the new COBL races ( which I love )

Great mod to try out if you find yourself confused or overwhelmed by the large selection of levelling mods currently available.

The mod might not appear " natural " but it enhances the game in a number of obvious and subtle ways.

Thanks Vini. Yeah, pretty busy with other stuff, but also there's not a whole lot more changes to make to it. Could be more experience based, but then you get OblivionXP, so that's covered.

Agreed. The only issue is the level bug that appears to only occur once. Regardless this mod is priceless.

Merry Christmas Wrye.

Thank you for all your hard and dedicated work on making Oblivion all it can be. Wrye Bash is absolutely essential to the community.
I am very excited about all the stuff you and the crew are doing to Cobl at the moment with options, races and item interchange etc.

Anyway I have decided to use Wrye Leveling as my leveling method due to it's beautiful simplicity and flexibility. However I have a small issue I am trying to solve getting it to work. I have read the ReadMe and I usualy know my way around mods but I simply can not get the Wrye Leveling option to show up in the Cobl Options menu ingame.

The "+Level Up" misc. item in my inventory is not showing either but I reckon that this will not show until I have the 'dinero' required to level up?.

Regardless I know full well that I am to blame and that I must be the one doing something wrong but I simply need a fresh set of eyes to guide me on this one. I can not see anything conflicting with WL in TES4Edit and your scripting in the wrLevOptOS and wrLevZS scripts leaves a smile on my face as it ouses control and structure created by a true artist, so nothing wrong there! As you can see from the picture I also have the required option nif and dds.

I am very sorry that I can not find the culprit myself as it is in all likelyhood simple and obvoius, but I have looked myself blind last night trying to solve it. Any ideas are immensely appreciated!

Once again thank you and Merry Christmas
Frans

My Cobl options look like http://www.cmoc.dk/coblMenu.jpg (OBSE version shown in console messages in picture), and here is my load order from Wrye Bash:

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm02  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm03  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.54]04  Item interchange.esm  [Version 0.63]05  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]06  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.6beta3]07  TamrielTravellers.esm  [Version 1.37a]08  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9a7]09  AFC v2 Core.esm==  IMPORTS ==========**  LoadingScreens.esp**  TNR ALL RACES FINAL.esp**  TNR - ShiveringIsles.esp**  Book Jackets DLC.esp==  BASE PATCHES ==========++  HrmnsOblivionScriptOptimizationv1.0.esp++  Symphony of Violence.esp0A  Echo_ChapelChant.esp0B  Natural_Weather_HDR_with_darker_Nights_by_Max_Tael_RD.esp0C  Medium_FPSFIX_Natural_Vegetation.esp0D  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.0]0E  Book Jackets Oblivion.esp0F  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]10  Pitcher Plant and Lily Ingredients.esp11  UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp  [Version 1.0.0]12  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp13  DLCShiveringIsles.esp14  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]15  SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp  [Version 1.05]==  MISC PATCHES ==========16  immersive_caves_auto.esp==  ECONOMY PATCHES ==========17  ReneersGoldMod.esp18  Living Economy.esp19  Cutthroat Merchants.esp1A  za_bankmod.esp==  FRANCESCO ==========1B  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp1C  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp1D  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp1E  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp1F  Francesco's Optional Leveled Quests-SI only.esp++  Francesco's Dark Seducer Weapons Patch.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]20  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]21  Fran Armor Add-on.esp22  Fran_Lv30Item_Maltz.esp==  HORSES ==========23  DLCHorseArmor.esp24  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]25  SM Plugin Refurbish - HorseArmor.esp  [Version 1.11]==  DLC ==========26  DLCOrrery.esp27  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]28  SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp  [Version 1.11]29  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp2A  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]2B  SM Plugin Refurbish - Battlehorn.esp  [Version 1.11]2C  DLCVileLair.esp2D  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]++  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]2E  SM Plugin Refurbish - VileLair.esp  [Version 1.11]2F  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp30  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]31  SM Plugin Refurbish - MehrunesRazor.esp  [Version 1.11]32  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]**  GrimbotsSpellTomes.esp33  DLCThievesDen.esp34  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]35  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.4]36  SM Plugin Refurbish - ThievesDen.esp  [Version 1.11]37  DLCFrostcrag.esp38  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]39  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]3A  SM Plugin Refurbish - Frostcrag.esp  [Version 1.09]==  FCOM GENERAL ==========3B  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.50]3C  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.32]3D  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.41]++  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.63]3E  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp3F  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]40  Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp++  FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp  [Version 0.9.9]41  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp42  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9]==  OSCURO ==========43  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]44  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9]45  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]46  FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_SpawnRatesReduced.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_NoReaversInGates.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_NoAdventurersInGates.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta]==  MARTIGEN ==========47  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.6Beta3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.6Beta3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - No Blood.esp  [Version 3.6Beta3]48  Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp  [Version 3.6Beta2]49  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.6Beta3]4A  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.6Beta3]4B  Mart's Monster Mod - Vindasel.esp  [Version 3.6Beta3]4C  Mart's Monster Mod - Foxes.esp  [Version 3.6Beta3]4D  TamrielTravellers4OOO.esp  [Version 1.38]4E  TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp  [Version 1.38]4F  ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp  [Version 1.38]++  FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 1.0]++  FCOM_ArcheryRealSwords.esp  [Version 2]++  FCOM_ArcheryHunting&Crafting.esp  [Version 1]==  HOMES & PLACES ==========50  Ship Wrack.esp51  Capsized Ship.esp52  GP_Safe Water.esp53  Topal Island - Safe Water.esp54  Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp  [Version 3.07]55  KumikoManor.esp==  QUESTS ==========56  Knights.esp57  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]++  SM Plugin Refurbish - Knights.esp  [Version 1.06]==  LOAD LATE ==========58  Addendum - Property Tax.esp59  Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp  [Version 3.6Beta3]++  FCOM_UnofficialFranArmorAddon.esp  [Version 0.9.9]==  TRANSPORT ==========5A  GP_Moretta.esp5B  CLS-Sailboats.esp5C  PersonalPackGuars.esp  [Version 0.56]==  MAGIC ==========5D  Syc_AtHomeAlchemy.esp++  [GFX]_Initial_Glow-all.esp++  Visually Enchanted 2.1.esp5E  MidasSpells.esp5F  Midas OscuroGems.esp60  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.62EV]61  bgMagicAlchemy.esp  [Version 1.57]62  bgMagicLightningbolt.esp63  bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp  [Version 1.62EV]++  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.62EV]++  bgMagicEVNoSummonGlow.esp  [Version 1.62EV]++  bgMagicEVAddEnVar.esp  [Version 1.62EV]**  bgMagicEVShader.esp  [Version 1.62EV]++  bgMagicItemSigil.esp  [Version 1.62EV]==  LEVELING ==========64  Wrye Leveling.esp  [Version 06]65  PersuasionOverhaul.esp  [Version 1.4]66  NoEncumberedSwimming.esp67  RealisticFatigue.esp68  RealisticHealth.esp==  FIGHTING ==========69  AFC v2 Locational Damage.esp6A  Adrenaline Fuelled Archery- Bow Sway.esp6B  Duke Patricks - Custom Melee Weapons Made Compatible.esp6C  Duke Patricks - Custom Bows And Arrows Made Compatible.esp6D  Duke Patricks - SCA Melee Combat with NO RECOIL.esp6E  Duke Patricks - SCA Combat Archery.esp6F  Duke Patricks - Smash of the Titans.esp70  Duke Patricks - Nosferatu Class Vampires.esp71  Duke Patricks Contagious Zombies.esp++  Duke Patricks - BASIC Script Effect Silencer BETA.esp==  FINAL PATCHES ==========++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.63]++  Item interchange - Placement for Frostcrag Spire Revisited.esp  [Version 0.63]++  -- HawkerT Patch WEIGHT CONSOLIDATION.esp72  Bashed Patch, 2.esp73  -- HawkerT Patch SPELLS NO LIGHTING.esp74  -- HawkerT Patch FACTION.esp75  -- HawkerT Patch EXPLORER.esp76  -- HawkerT Patch MESSAGES BE GONE.esp77  -- HawkerT Patch DARKER DUNGEONS.esp78  -- HawkerT Patch FATIGUE SETTINGS.esp==  MISC ==========79  CleanQuit.esp7A  Cyrodiil Border Regions 1.2.esp7B  Streamline 3.1.esp7C  Skip Tutorial.esp

Sorry, I ought to mention this in the readme... Wrye Leveling is not available until you've picked your character class. E.g. in a normal game, after Baurus has had the "I'll bet you're a xxx" conversation with you.

@ HawkerT

I know you probably want Wrye's help seeing as how its his mod, but judging by your screenshot I might know the solution.

I looked at your screenshot of the COBL Options menu and noticed your character is in the starting jail cell. I don't remember this being explicitly mentioned in the Readme so I can't blame you, but you don't receive the +[Levelup] or the +[Leveling] item until after you have played through the Tutorial dungeon. I didn't get my items till right before I left the sewers. Since no mods you have should conflict with Wrye Leveling, then I suggest to just play through to the dungeon and then come back if you are past the sewers and still don't have your items. If you have already tried this and you still don't have the items then you probably will need Wrye's help.

Good luck,
xFrancis147

EDIT: Looks like I got beat.

Thank you very much Wrye and xFrancis147, just did a quick run-though and it works like a charm after having chosen my character class!
Looking so much forward to playing with this gem. :foodndrink:

Thank you and all the best
Frans

Thank You So Much!! I absolutely love this mod. Finally, I can build my char how I want to, not how the game wants me to. I just love it!!!!

New Version: 07 -- Now requires Cobl 1.66!
* Add guide book.
* Add Retroactive Health.
* Level up health gain now uses gamesetting for perlevel gain.

Guide Book: This is available in-game through the Cobl Guide Books menu (requires Cobl 1.66 or higher).

Retroactive Health:
In vanilla Oblivion, your health increases at each level in proportion to your endurance at that level. Thus, raising your endurance earlier nets you more cumulative health. While this is often criticized, it does make some sense -- Melee focussed characters are more likely to raise their endurance earlier, which is rewarded under the vanilla system.

If you prefer NOT to have the vanilla path based health approach, then you can use the retroactive health option. This calculation is the same as vanilla, except that it assumes that you have raised your endurance in a straight line from your initial to current value.

The difficulty in this calculation is determining your initial endurance. Wrye Leveling recognizes contributions from your race/gender, your primary and secondary class attributes, and any endurance fortification/drain abilities that you have. All of these are considered to contribute to your starting health.

In addition, any health fortification/drain abilities will be added in on top of the endurance based calculations.

Retroactive Health is sensitive to changes in the following game settings:
* fStatsHealthStartMult: Effects starting health/endurance.
* fStatsHealthLevelMult: Effects health gained per levelup.
* fAttributeClassPrimaryBonus: Effects starting bonus to endurance.
* fAttributeClassSecondaryBonus: Effects starting bonus to endurance.

Retroactive Health is also sensitive to mods that change starting racial endurance, and that change health and/or endurance health fortification abilities for racial and birthsign abilities.

Note that if your health has been corrupted by some mod (set too high or too low), then Retroactive Health will repair that. Since the repair may substantially lower your health, it's probably wise to be fully healthy before you activate Retroactive Health.

"No managing, of course, means no choice as well. And a big part of any RPG is that you have a choice in what you level. It's the entire premise behind having a skill based leveling system.

Realistic Leveling is a great mod for people that just want to play the game and have what skills they commonly use be the center of attention. It's the "better oblivion" system, in that it does a great job of managing attribute raises without the mess and fuss of the vanilla system. That said, there's a pretty good reason that kind of leveling concept isn't used more common in the genre.

Oblivion XP is also a fine system, but it is severely hampered by having to shove a square peg into a round hole. The fact Oblivion uses an "XP" system to fill out the skill progression concept means that Oblivion XP can exist by manipulating that data, but because Oblivion XP is the only system to radically depart from this default, it also means that it is in a constant struggle against the central tendencies of the vanilla system. The poison "bug" is one such issue that arises from this.

Wrye Leveling is a neat idea in that it is similar to Oblivion XP without the need to quantify tasks with XP tokens, but it just feels odd to most people being able to buy levels in an RPG game as it indirectly separates the tasks from the end result. In the end, it probably gives the average player too much choice, because unlike most every other method, you can simply never level at all. That's cool for some mods, but for most mods (and vanilla), whereby the game is balanced around your level, that's an odd thing to have. I think that reason, more than anything else, is why this mod isn't more popular, because it certainly is a well functioning mod that is able to do what Oblivion XP is ultimately setting out to do, but by using a universal currency, it is able to bypass the other drawbacks. But we as gamers, and especially RPG gamers, have become so accustomed to acting against the constraints of the game, that this much leveling freedom feels extremely awkward. The entire idea of "choosing to level" is almost an oxymoron.

The nice thing about these three choices is they work with almost anything and are very versatile. It really boils down to how you want to get the job done."

_______________________________________________

This was posted by brophog in the now closed thread (over 200 posts) of "your favorite leveing system, which one are your favorites and why? I am going to install wrye leveling because I think its the one that makes the most sense based on Real Life - here's why:

Use golf, karate or even why one goes to college - well in Real Life you must "pay" to increase your skills. Use golf for an example - you could play everyday but while you start of a some natural level based upon your existing natural talents (strength, endurance, agility, etc) and that may get somewhat better by "experience" by using your skills and attributes (natural talents), the only real way to increase your skills and attributes is to "pay" someone like a golf pro (blade master) to get better. Same goes for karate and even mental skill advancement by paying college professors (mages) to increase your knowledge.

By paying for skill advancement, and if I understand that to really increase my skills and attributes through the use of "master" based training options in wyre leveling, that again more realistically models what happens in Real Life...imho.

That's a really good insight (both yours and brophog's). I can't disagree with opinions like these concerning leveling mods since it all boils down to personal preference.

You won't be disappointed with Wrye Leveling, Chakka. I still use it on one of my characters (I use Pure Immersion on my newer character for some variety). I'll venture as far as saying WL is bug-free, too. Basically, my reasoning for using it was because it was very simple (didn't have a whole lot of extra features which ruined other mod's feature, such as non-optional retroactive health or attribute calculations based solely on skills). Despite what people may think, the player isn't just buying levels; he/she earns money by killing monsters, stealing, bartering, looting, exploring, completing quest, etc, all of which act as mediums for a level-up and thus using gold to level-up just makes sense. The need to completing Master Training Quest before you can advance past level 75 in a skill is also a superb feature. WL has so many customizable options that it allows you to be a jack-of-all-trades character or a specialized character with just a few clicks (Cobl menus work great). True with WL you can halt your progression, but this is the same as simply not sleeping when running other leveling mods/vanilla. Lastly, paying my spare gold for level-up is a great way to control the large influx of gold in Oblivion.

Luck,

Where did you place wrye leveling in your load order...boss doesnt have it in the master list. Im guessing near the other leveling mods section...thanks...

I tend to stick leveling mods near the end, but there isn't much for Wrye Leveling to conflict with, other than maybe retroactive health being used somewhere else (like race balancing or similar).


And even in that case, you can turn one of the two off. It's pretty conflict free, which is yet another of its benefits.

brophog is right, near the end.

Go to your masterlist.txt find something like Realistic Leveling and place it in that area; really is load order independent though. In the case of RBP, turn off (off by default) Wrye Leveling's retroactive health and use RBP's instead. RBP's is better because it takes into account your race when determining your health as well.

I have installed all of bg's mods and thanks for the tip on retroactive health settings...getting close to having half of my mods installed - about 120 esps, 75 active so far and game is working perfectly with FCOM and all of the FCOM addons fully installed plus bg's mods and a few others - at least at startup and shutdown no CTDs but Im going to start testing outside of the beginning training dungeon and needed wrye leveling loaded to test leveling (and outside of course)....UL mods, BC mods next...

Wrye,


If you ever do tinker again with the setting limits, please add a negative range to the costbase slider. Right now, we can do it with a console command, but it would be handy to have it as a slider option as well.


It comes in really handy when trying to make leveling curves, so that you can increase the level spacing for later levels while not increasing it in the early levels.

It appears that using Wrye Leveling with Race Balancing Project results in a neat quirk. (It may be intended, but I can't get my game to run without race balancing at the moment. I think they're in love). :hugs:




The leveling function of WL doesn't seem to recognize birthsign attribute changes from RBP, so it is possible to exceed the 100 attribute limit with that attribute.



{Edit: Found the command to disable Race Balancing to test this, and when reverted back to vanilla settings, WL doesn't seem to be taking birthsign into effect on the levelup screen. Further testing is needed, however.}

brophog, I don't understand; is this bad or good? IIRC, WL allows your attributes to exceed to their universal limit if your birthsigns fortify your attributes. It shouldn't matter if they are added by a mod or they are vanilla. So what are you getting at?

I'm not suggesting it is good, bad, or otherwise. I was under the impression that it capped the attributes to 100, with the exception of abilities. In vanilla, a birthsign such as 'warrior' would not let you go above that cap, but in WL, it does. I can't find anywhere in the documentation that suggests this is an intended behavior which is why I am simply reporting it.

Oh yea that is very much intended. Do you not like it? To me it makes sense, no?



It\'s in the readme. Normally this is when I get all RTFM, :flamethrower: , and what not but I can understand how this part would elude someone since it doesn\'t explicitly mention birthsigns.

I would not take it to mean that. There is a difference between an item giving an ability and a birthsign, and one should not assume that simply because it does not state birthsigns that it means them.


In vanilla, an item would let you go over the cap, too (such as the aforementioned skeleton key), whereas a birthsign doesn't. Therefore, the safest assumption would be to agree with that logic until something explicitly states to the contrary.



Ergo, I reported it, rather than simply assumed, and Wrye can do with that information as he so chooses. I have no preference, personally, but since the issue had never come to our intention, it was worthy of feedback.


If you have actual documented evidence to show this is working as intended then please report it. Do not assume that people did not read the readme.

Wouldn't that mean that you would get PAID to level early on?
* Keep in mind that you can always ramp up the cost later on.
* Maybe I could add a power component to increase cost exponentially. (Although that makes the math more complicated for new users.)

Retroactive Health: That's a bit complicated, but it should changes to races. The docs explain this pretty thoroughly.

Caps: As xFrancis said, WL respects abilities. Perhaps less known is that when birthsigns raise your stats, they do so through abilities attached to the birthsign. So, yep documentation says as much -- but just no directly. Folks less familiar with internal functioning of birthsigns could miss the implications.

Anyway, glad to see WL being used and appreciated!