149 hours in game... still many questions

Post » Wed May 30, 2012 8:00 am

My "main" character - a woodelf - arrived at level 45. I didn't advance the main quest over the point, when the old guy joins the "team". Until now I maxed out stealth (all perks), have smithing at 100 but didn't take daedra smithing. Bow and 1-handed are well in the 80ies, shield at about 55. The last skill tree I want to push is light armour, a bit over 60 currently. Of course I have lockpicking also over 80, but didnt spend one single point there. The same counts for some other skill trees (enchanting, speech etc.).

As you can probably see, my goal was a stealthy fighter, who can handle a bow and prefers light stuff. Nevertheless, there are some things in this game I can't explain myself and found no answers elewhere.

Stealth

As we all know, we can increase smithing far over 100 by using pots, enchantments etc. to obtain better results, when we upgrade our stuff. Would it make sense to wear items which increase stealth by a certain percantage and / or wear armour which gives bonusses like "muffled", when stealth is maxed at 100 and the same perk already taken?
I ask, because some mobs seem to have a godlike perception. Whatever I do, they turn around literally in the last fragment of the second I start my backstab, see me ("full eye") and thus, my sneak attack failed, while others don't take notice of my presence even in broad daylight when I'm just under their noses.

Then there is the perk "shadow warrior". As far as I could see, it may work against very low level mobs. Normally, when I crouch, I see the "black cloud", the enemy says something like "where are you" but in the next moment I seem to be fully visible again. It's not even a second before they continue attacking. Do I use the skill in a wrong way?

Shouts

I often read that "unrelented force" drives the mobs over cliffs, cross the room and so on. In my case they are just a bit shocked, but recover in the next second to countinue attacking me. I have all three words for the shout, I use it on enemies directly in front of me. What do I miss?
"Disarming" - I have two words until now and disarmed TWO enemies, some very low level bandits. Anyone else is "too powerful". Strange, because for the shout "ice form" there seems not to be something like a level cap. Even giants fall frozen, although I have, too, only two words until now. Is "disarm" simply unbalanced or bugged?

"Races"

Just to see if there is a difference I started a Nord, who fights mainly head on, without bow and stealth. She is level 11 now, uses unentchanted "superior" steel sword & shield, wears a "superior" leather armour, no helm. I am amazed, how well she does. Almost every fight ends with a special cutscene ("death blow?"). My elf was skilled vaguely in the same way at this level, equipped with elven / glass stuff and had major problems to endure melee fights and mostly died, when there were more than one enemy at the same time. Are there "hidden" inherent abilities which give the races certain advantages (I don't mean the starting bonusses)?

Thanks in advance for replies and opinions :wavey:
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Killer McCracken
 
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Post » Wed May 30, 2012 6:15 pm

As far as shouts go, you have to hold the shout button down for awhile in order to get the most powerful result, and your Nord character sounds like she's been fighting toe to toe for a few levels, thus having higher defensive skills, as opposed to your archer who kills at range.

Stealth perks/enchantments have always been a (?) to me, I just rerolled a stealth character so I'll know soon enough
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Dean Brown
 
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Post » Wed May 30, 2012 6:37 pm

Stealth

As we all know, we can increase smithing far over 100 by using pots, enchantments etc. to obtain better results, when we upgrade our stuff. Would it make sense to wear items which increase stealth by a certain percantage and / or wear armour which gives bonusses like "muffled", when stealth is maxed at 100 and the same perk already taken? I've wondered the same thing myself. Unfortunately I don't know the answer though.
I ask, because some mobs seem to have a godlike perception. Whatever I do, they turn around literally in the last fragment of the second I start my backstab, see me ("full eye") and thus, my sneak attack failed, while others don't take notice of my presence even in broad daylight when I'm just under their noses. I've had problems with backstabs before - not against any type of foe in particular though. The way it seems to work for me is that I'll be moving forward when I swing my weapon (often as a power attack), which locks me into an animation of moving forward which I can't stop. I think I've often walked into the back of my target before swinging my weapon, which has alerted them to my presence. Maybe it's the same for you? Sneak seems pretty reliable unless I do this.

Then there is the perk "shadow warrior". As far as I could see, it may work against very low level mobs. Normally, when I crouch, I see the "black cloud", the enemy says something like "where are you" but in the next moment I seem to be fully visible again. It's not even a second before they continue attacking. Do I use the skill in a wrong way? Haven't got this perk so can't comment :(

Shouts

I often read that "unrelented force" drives the mobs over cliffs, cross the room and so on. In my case they are just a bit shocked, but recover in the next second to countinue attacking me. I have all three words for the shout, I use it on enemies directly in front of me. What do I miss? Stupid question but are you sure you're holding the shout button long enough to use all three words? I've never had this problem myself, there are very few enemies (only the huge ones like mammoths and dragons) that don't go flying when I use FUS ROH and DAH.
"Disarming" - I have two words until now and disarmed TWO enemies, some very low level bandits. Anyone else is "too powerful". Strange, because for the shout "ice form" there seems not to be something like a level cap. Even giants fall frozen, although I have, too, only two words until now. Is "disarm" simply unbalanced or bugged? Ice Form is extremely overpowered; I've heard similar reports that Disarm is extremely underpowered. I really don't understand why the shouts are governed by the same rules that govern normal magic schools (e.g. having a max level, like Disarm, or not working on enchanted weapons, like Elemental Fury).

"Races"

Just to see if there is a difference I started a Nord, who fights mainly head on, without bow and stealth. She is level 11 now, uses unentchanted "superior" steel sword & shield, wears a "superior" leather armour, no helm. I am amazed, how well she does. Almost every fight ends with a special cutscene ("death blow?"). My elf was skilled vaguely in the same way at this level, equipped with elven / glass stuff and had major problems to endure melee fights and mostly died, when there were more than one enemy at the same time. Are there "hidden" inherent abilities which give the races certain advantages (I don't mean the starting bonusses)? There are no hidden racial stats. Heavy Armour is extremely powerful, especially when smithed. Superior is pretty good for a level 11 character. In my experience the only vaguely difficult period for my warrior was between about level 15 and 20. For the most part it's been plain sailing. Difficulty is all about which skills you've raised though. You could raise 2 combat-only skills a long way and hit level 15, or you could raise 5 skills, both combat and non-combat, a lesser distance, and still hit level 15. The first character would find combat a lot easier. Maybe your warrior is just more specialised than your Bosmer?

Thanks in advance for replies and opinions :wavey:

A few thoughts :)
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Princess Johnson
 
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Post » Wed May 30, 2012 7:44 am

It seem there's a bug on Stealth.
Many people report that, with patch 1.3, if your sneak level reach/go beyond 100, values will go into negative and it will be easier for others to detect you.
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meg knight
 
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Post » Wed May 30, 2012 1:40 pm

Stealth is broken into several factors including weight of armor, skill, movement, and enemies perception. Muffled movement just takes that factor out of the detection formula. Taking the muffled movement perk will permanently remove the movement check regardless of what boots you're wearing. Also, stealth attacking any enemy from bandits to giants from the front in anything but total darkness is asking for failure. This is mainly due to the perception factor getting multiplied as you get in closer proximity to the front/flanks of an enemy. Taking the Light/Heavy armor perk that removes the weight of worn armor will also negate this check in the formula. Fortifying sneak doesn't seem to work nearly as well as "Harder to Detect." I am not sure how the formula works, but it would seem that they should be the same.

The Shadow Warrior perk works extremely well if you know how to use it. The description is rather vague in explaining exactly what it does. If you can move away from an enemy several meters and stealth, the enemy will lose sight of you and stop or slow its pursuit. Can also be used in unison with the bow at range against enemies that might have noticed you taking the shot. Even though the eye might be "full" the AI behaves like it is "searching" for you. This can give you an advantage to relocate and get back into full stealth. Shadow Warrior works extremely poor against dragons, but very well against all other enemies.

Hope this helped. Just some notes I've gathered through trial and error.
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Prue
 
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Post » Wed May 30, 2012 8:42 am

Ok, thx, now I know a little more.

I guess, my sneak attack is indeed mostly a power attack; not that I want this, it's just like "Now...hit"... :whistling:

Indeed, I hit the shout button just like I hit my left mouse button for a normal attack. I didn't know about holding it longer.

As a sidenote for my Nord: She wears light leather, too, no heavy armour at all. No helm and no boots (RPGing... poor girl from the countryside and so on :wink_smile: ).
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Alexandra Ryan
 
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Post » Wed May 30, 2012 11:48 am


I ask, because some mobs seem to have a godlike perception. Whatever I do, they turn around literally in the last fragment of the second I start my backstab, see me ("full eye") and thus, my sneak attack failed, while others don't take notice of my presence even in broad daylight when I'm just under their noses.

What makes me laugh is being completely hidden and launching a stealth arrow attack and have the target step to his left like he is in the Matrix. Really? He could see the arrow in flight and do the Hokey Pokey and still not know where the arrow came from. Then he is alerted to danger from the sound of the arrow hitting stone next to his body.
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Jenna Fields
 
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Post » Wed May 30, 2012 6:41 pm

What makes me laugh is being completely hidden and launching a stealth arrow attack and have the target step to his left like he is in the Matrix.
It was the 8 divines protecting him. It is the only answer!
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CSar L
 
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Post » Wed May 30, 2012 11:39 am

"Races"

Just to see if there is a difference I started a Nord, who fights mainly head on, without bow and stealth. She is level 11 now, uses unentchanted "superior" steel sword & shield, wears a "superior" leather armour, no helm. I am amazed, how well she does. Almost every fight ends with a special cutscene ("death blow?"). My elf was skilled vaguely in the same way at this level, equipped with elven / glass stuff and had major problems to endure melee fights and mostly died, when there were more than one enemy at the same time. Are there "hidden" inherent abilities which give the races certain advantages (I don't mean the starting bonusses)?

Thanks in advance for replies and opinions :wavey:

Did you raise your smithing at the start to make elven/glass gear?

If so, you could easily have gotten some levels where your combat skills didn't improve, which can make the game quite difficult.
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Allison C
 
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Post » Wed May 30, 2012 9:36 pm

I have problems with high level draugr and dwarf centurions. I assume they have some kind of 'detect life' ability in addition to normal means of detection.

And then there are the Falmer. Completely blind. With muffle you can dance in circles around them all day. Just don't make any noise. They have very good ears.
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Jodie Bardgett
 
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Post » Wed May 30, 2012 9:01 am

As we all know, we can increase smithing far over 100 by using pots, enchantments etc. to obtain better results, when we upgrade our stuff. Would it make sense to wear items which increase stealth by a certain percantage and / or wear armour which gives bonusses like "muffled", when stealth is maxed at 100 and the same perk already taken?I ask, because some mobs seem to have a godlike perception. Whatever I do, they turn around literally in the last fragment of the second I start my backstab, see me ("full eye") and thus, my sneak attack failed, while others don't take notice of my presence even in broad daylight when I'm just under their noses.

Then there is the perk "shadow warrior". As far as I could see, it may work against very low level mobs. Normally, when I crouch, I see the "black cloud", the enemy says something like "where are you" but in the next moment I seem to be fully visible again. It's not even a second before they continue attacking. Do I use the skill in a wrong way?

tKeen answered most of these questions, but I'll add that you don't need Fortify Sneak enchants. 100 Sneak skill, 1/5 Stealth, and Muffled Movement perk/ Muffled boot enchant (which don't stack btw, so you shouldn't have both) are all you need. As tKeen noted, movement speed and armor weight both affect your ability to sneak. Do you have Unhindered in the Light Armor tree? Do you slow down and ensure that you're approaching your target from the rear?
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Horror- Puppe
 
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Post » Wed May 30, 2012 10:41 pm

Did you raise your smithing at the start to make elven/glass gear?

If so, you could easily have gotten some levels where your combat skills didn't improve, which can make the game quite difficult.

Well, with my elf I started smithing like mad, because I thought that this is the way. With my Nord I did some smithing as well, but did not take any perks beyond the first one (steel).
Further, I had Lydia around with my elf at the start, before I began to do my stuff alone. The Nord was always solo.

@ Whisk3yjack
I have 100 in sneak and EVERY perk there, as well as 5/5 of the basic. In the light armour tree I have the unhindered movement as well. I'm not sure what you mean wirth "do you slow down"... but of course I try to come from the rear. BTW, I tested the information which I got here and I'm pretty sure it was this power attack thing (pressing LMB too long) which gave me away when attempting a sneak attack.
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luke trodden
 
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Post » Wed May 30, 2012 2:06 pm

What makes me laugh is being completely hidden and launching a stealth arrow attack and have the target step to his left like he is in the Matrix. Really? He could see the arrow in flight and do the Hokey Pokey and still not know where the arrow came from. Then he is alerted to danger from the sound of the arrow hitting stone next to his body.

I have presented this theory once. I came first with the explanations and unfortunately I was one of those who suffered and still suffer from this bizarreness.

It is called trollface sliding. The NPC simply slides and detects you only-god-knows-how.
It happens often when you use a bow, but happens when you use a dagger also.

Sometimes you try to backstab but if there's no kill animation possible, the NPC slides randomly and sometimes even towards you (even if the NPC's back is at your front).

That dissapoints me hard. If you notice well.. There's no animations and the NPC freezes totally when doing this "sliding".

It happens often when the NPC is unaware and you're farther than 30 meters. Well.. how the NPC detects you? Don't know.
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Lucky Boy
 
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Post » Wed May 30, 2012 8:17 pm

didn't read all the replies, but regarding the crouching skill that allows you to be searched for again, here is what to try. If you are outside and discovered go out of sneak and sprint away at least 40 yards or whatever and sneak again, they will usually stop running and start looking for you. If you run and sneak and get behind a tree or rock, you will eventually go hidden again. I have used this on the Frost Troll things and they usually have a really easy time finding me. I have also used this on Mammoths who seem to see into the ethereal...

If you stay near them and crouch, you will stealth, but they will easily refind you.
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Kelly Upshall
 
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Post » Wed May 30, 2012 11:49 am

didn't read all the replies, but regarding the crouching skill that allows you to be searched for again, here is what to try. If you are outside and discovered go out of sneak and sprint away at least 40 yards or whatever and sneak again, they will usually stop running and start looking for you. If you run and sneak and get behind a tree or rock, you will eventually go hidden again. I have used this on the Frost Troll things and they usually have a really easy time finding me. I have also used this on Mammoths who seem to see into the ethereal...

If you stay near them and crouch, you will stealth, but they will easily refind you.


This kind of using the "shadow warrior" works; I've done it frequently. But should this be the point of the perk? In my imagination I should be able to "vanish in the shadow" even then, when I'm in close combat and surrounded by enemies. Of course I don't expect to be fully stealthed forever, but at least a bit more than a fragment of a second.
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Samantha Wood
 
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Post » Wed May 30, 2012 2:26 pm



Indeed, I hit the shout button just like I hit my left mouse button for a normal attack. I didn't know about holding it longer.


I'm not 100% sure on how it works on PC since I am on Xbox, but yes, you do need to hold the shout button. When you use your shout, do you hear all three words being said? If not, then you aren't using the full three words. Hope this helps! :biggrin:
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Lynette Wilson
 
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Post » Wed May 30, 2012 9:00 pm

I'm not 100% sure on how it works on PC since I am on Xbox, but yes, you do need to hold the shout button. When you use your shout, do you hear all three words being said? If not, then you aren't using the full three words. Hope this helps! :biggrin:


It works now exactly the way many people described it. The enemies fly cross the room and seem to be dazed for a second after straightening themselves. But I don't hear three words, for whatever reason.
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T. tacks Rims
 
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