About the Reach incident

Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:48 pm

I was wondering what happend in the reach i keep hearing stuff about Ulfric Stormcloak somhow being responisible for those barbarian Forsworn i see around that area i've looked for books on the subject but havn't really found any so i was wondering if any of you can give me a basics on what happend there.
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Elizabeth Falvey
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:41 am

I was wondering what happend in the reach i keep hearing stuff about Ulfric Stormcloak somhow being responisible for those barbarian Forsworn i see around that area i've looked for books on the subject but havn't really found any so i was wondering if any of you can give me a basics on what happend there.

There's one book on the subject that I know of: look for "The Bear of Markarth." (If you'd rather not hunt for it--I've only found one copy, in an inn in Morthal or someplace IIRC--you can read the text of it http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Bear_of_Markarth.) It explains some things, although it's written by an Imperial scholar, so there may well be some bias involved.
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NAtIVe GOddess
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:28 am

The basics: The Forsworn are natives to the Reach. Some day their king Madanach started an uprising to drive out the Nords of their land, since there were some religous "differences". Markarth was not able to defend itself and the Empire accepted Jarl Ulfrics aid and promised hin free Talos airship in return. After some bloody occirences, Ulfric won and the Wnpire acrewed him over because they were afraid of the Thalmor.
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Yvonne Gruening
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:11 am

Ah thats interesting if i want to disscuss it further i suppose i should go to the lore thread.
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Mason Nevitt
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:38 am

The basics: The Forsworn are natives to the Reach. Some day their king Madanach started an uprising to drive out the Nords of their land, since there were some religous "differences". Markarth was not able to defend itself and the Empire accepted Jarl Ulfrics aid and promised hin free Talos airship in return. After some bloody occirences, Ulfric won and the Wnpire acrewed him over because they were afraid of the Thalmor.

Did he ask for free worship just for himself or did he ask for this be allowed to all?.
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Bigze Stacks
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:27 am

The Reach was subdued by the empire beginning with Tiber Septim (see for instance, the quest at the Old Hroldan Inn). The Forsworn are those who seek to rid the region of both the empire and the Nords, and have turned to daedric magic in a pact with the hagravens in order to "repay every debt in blood" (see The Legend of Red Eagle).

During the Great War, the empire pulled its troops out of the Reach in order to secure the Imperial City. During this time the Forsworn took the city of Markarth and ruled it for 2 years. After the Great War, Jarl Igmund's family contracted with a Nord militia led by Ulfric to retake the city from the Forsworn. In exchange they said they would allow Talos worship in the city. Igmund says they hoped the Thalmor would not find out about it. The city was retaken, but the Thalmor did find out about it, so to prevent a renewal of the war with the Dominion, Igmund's father had Ulfric and his men jailed. This whole deal is called the Markarth Incident.
Spoiler
In their dossier about Ulfric, the Thalmor claim that they engineered the whole thing.

There are some in-game books about the Forsworn. The latter two are written by the same guy, and let's just say he's very opinionated and has quite a rosy view of the Forsworn. IMO he is not an objective source, so you have to read between his lines very carefully. Some of the information in The Bear of Markarth is contradicted by Igmund and others, for instance.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Legend_of_Red_Eagle
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_%22Madmen%22_of_the_Reach
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Bear_of_Markarth
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Ray
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:44 am



Did he ask for free worship just for himself or did he ask for this be allowed to all?.
He demanded free Talos worship on Markarth, Windhelm was doibg it anyway at that point. The reestablishing of the Talos cult is a main agenda of Ulfric, even befire the Stormcloak rebellion. The Markarth incident lead to this rebellion after all, since the Empire denied it to Ulfric after they promised it.
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MarilĂș
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:44 am

He demanded free Talos worship on Markarth, Windhelm was doibg it anyway at that point. The reestablishing of the Talos cult is a main agenda of Ulfric, even befire the Stormcloak rebellion. The Markarth incident lead to this rebellion after all, since the Empire denied it to Ulfric after they promised it.

Windhelm didn't establish free Talos worship yet. Ulfric wasn't Jarl, he just got out of the Leigon.
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rheanna bruining
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:40 am

You know i never really cared about the religous side of the war, i mean the elves are probably right about Talos not being a god, i mean Talos is obviosly the counterpart to the Roman god Romulus who was the first emperor of Rome and after he died he was pronounced a God.

Not to say the Elves are right, no the Aldmeri Dominon is quite evil.
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Sarah Bishop
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:28 pm

Windhelm didn't establish free Talos worship yet. Ulfric wasn't Jarl, he just got out of the Leigon.
The temple was always in Windhelm, I doubt they stopped using it.

You know i never really cared about the religous side of the war, i mean the elves are probably right about Talos not being a god, i mean Talos is obviosly the counterpart to the Roman god Romulus who was the first emperor of Rome and after he died he was pronounced a God.

Not to say the Elves are right, no the Aldmeri Dominon is quite evil.
Nope, Talos is a god. He, or should I say they, mantled Shor and became a god in the process. Talos appears in TES 3: Morrowind and gives the hero his lucky voin, he is therefore directly interfering in the mortal world.

The Thalmor have to deny Talos since he holds theworld together. The ultimate Thalmor goal is to inmake the world, to do that they have to kill every man and "destroy" Talos.
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no_excuse
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:38 am

You know i never really cared about the religous side of the war, i mean the elves are probably right about Talos not being a god, i mean Talos is obviosly the counterpart to the Roman god Romulus who was the first emperor of Rome and after he died he was pronounced a God.

Not to say the Elves are right, no the Aldmeri Dominon is quite evil.
There's a lot of evidence in TES that Talos not only is a god, but a quite powerful one. You may recall from Oblivion that there was a http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Blood_of_the_Divines to get the blood of a god, and to do that you collect Tiber Septim's armor from Sancre Tor. According to http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride, he is the most powerful being in the TES universe. He's the one who is keeping the current cycle of creation going.

If the Thalmor didn't believe in Talos' power, they wouldn't be pulling out the stops to try to eradicate worship of him. If his worship is lessened, Talos himself is weakened and can thus (they hope) be removed from the mythic. So banning Talos worship is not just a social problem. It's weakening humanity's protector.
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Syaza Ramali
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:20 am

Oh okay, i still dont give a dang about the Talos deal, also my avatar being Elron im kind of disapointed you cant join the elves sides, i know there the bad guys but i Rp an evil wizard anyway.
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Wayne Cole
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:45 am

Oh okay, i still dont give a dang about the Talos deal.
That's ok, you are dealing with him the whole time anyway. :D
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Laura Simmonds
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:10 pm

There's a lot of evidence in TES that Talos not only is a god, but a quite powerful one. You may recall from Oblivion that there was a http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Blood_of_the_Divines to get the blood of a god, and to do that you collect Tiber Septim's armor from Sancre Tor. According to http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride, he is the most powerful being in the TES universe. He's the one who is keeping the current cycle of creation going.

If the Thalmor didn't believe in Talos' power, they wouldn't be pulling out the stops to try to eradicate worship of him. If his worship is lessened, Talos himself is weakened and can thus (they hope) be removed from the mythic. So banning Talos worship is not just a social problem. It's weakening humanity's protector.

In addition, in the MQ, when you go to Sovngarde, you do not find him in Shor's Hall. If someone with his deeds didn't reach Sovngarde, what else would happen other than him ascending to godhood?
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pinar
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:13 am

Only Nords or at least people who believe in Shor go to Sovngarde. If the Nerevarinee dies he would go to the Dreamsleeve, the CoC would go to the Shovering Isles.
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Yvonne Gruening
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:39 am

Only Nords or at least people who believe in Shor go to Sovngarde. If the Nerevarinee dies he would go to the Dreamsleeve, the CoC would go to the Shovering Isles.

And the Dragonborn would be stuck at the Twilight Sepulchre for eternity, Hircine's Hunting Grounds, the Void, etc, etc. Hjalti Early-Beard (Tiber Septim) was a Nord.
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le GraiN
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:18 am

You know i never really cared about the religous side of the war, i mean the elves are probably right about Talos not being a god, i mean Talos is obviosly the counterpart to the Roman god Romulus who was the first emperor of Rome and after he died he was pronounced a God.

Not to say the Elves are right, no the Aldmeri Dominon is quite evil.

Thats why it pays to delve into the lore a little bit :)
Talos most assuredly is a god, and Tiber Septim..

"And after the throne of Alinor did finally break at the feet of Men, and news of it came to the Dragon Emperor in Cyrodiil, he gathered his captains and spoke to them, saying:
"'You have suffered for me to win this throne, and I see how you hate jungle. Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you.'"
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Melissa De Thomasis
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:29 am

Oh okay, i still dont give a dang about the Talos deal, also my avatar being Elron im kind of disapointed you cant join the elves sides, i know there the bad guys but i Rp an evil wizard anyway.
Elrond was part hu...

Oh never mind. :biggrin:
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Marcin Tomkow
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:06 am



And the Dragonborn would be stuck at the Twilight Sepulchre for eternity, Hircine's Hunting Grounds, the Void, etc, etc. Hjalti Early-Beard (Tiber Septim) was a Nord.
Tiber Septim ent Talos, at least Tiber's not the only part of Talos. And it's heavily discussed in the lore forums if Hjalti was in fact a Nord. I'd like to believe it, but TES lore tends to contradict itself.
And the Dovahkiin won't die anyway, he still has to mantle someone.
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Alexis Estrada
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:10 am

Tiber Septim ent Talos, at least Tiber's not the only part of Talos. And it's heavily discussed in the lore forums if Hjalti was in fact a Nord. I'd like to believe it, but TES lore tends to contradict itself.

I like your avatar.
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Alan Cutler
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:51 pm



I like your avatar.
Thanks, sugarcube. :)
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Nomee
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:01 am

In addition, in the MQ, when you go to Sovngarde, you do not find him in Shor's Hall. If someone with his deeds didn't reach Sovngarde, what else would happen other than him ascending to godhood?
Eh, I don't see this as proof of much. He could have been out back tapping a new mead keg.
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Maria Leon
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:15 pm

Eh, I don't see this as proof of much. He could have been out back tapping a new mead keg.

Is that what they're calling it these days?
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Connor Wing
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:35 am

Is that what they're calling it these days?
He was always popular with the ladies...

I'd hit it. *crude mantling joke here*
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Hot
 
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