Scaling off of level is not enough. You basically have two camps of thought on difficulty in Skyrim. It's either too easy or too hard. With the sheer amount variety in builds the game has to offer there is absolutely no better fix to the difficulty question then what I intend to present here. Listen, you can whine and complain about these kinds of topics all you want but the truth of the matter is: There is obviously a problem. Whether that problem be in the positive for people like me that found the game way too easy, or those that find the game too hard. What I present here is a fix for BOTH camps. This is a huge oversight on Bethesda's part. The scaling in Oblivion was atrocious. So they set out to fix that in Skyrim. Thing is, they missed the mark. Yet again.

I just don't understand how:

1. This could be a bad idea
2. Bethesda refuses to get this issue right once in for all

Like I said: Scaling off of level is not enough. It should only be an ingredient in the overall recipe of scaling. I like progressing my character and feeling a bit powerful as much as the next guy. But, you can't make a game on such a grand scale with limitless gameplay (Beth's words, not mine) and grandeur and have it become stale so quickly. I've stated in another topic that I had 120 hours in the game already. 80 of which have been played on the Master difficulty. I approach every fight almost exactly the same way. There really is no variety as Bethesda basically put features in the game that breaks their own game extremely quickly. I am not here to argue the "well you shouldn't use that stuff" camp because, frankly, it's utterly ludicrous to ask someone to regress their character, take off their uber gear (gear I fought, smithed and paid for) and dumb down their character to a degree where the game feels challenging again. This dichotomy only exists in the Elder Scrolls games for some reason. I've never heard anyone tell me to put my characters in Persona 3 in lesser gear if I want a challenge at the 100 hour mark...mainly because I'm still being challenged at the 100 hour mark. Sure, I'm powerful, but there are still challenges! If I wanted a cakewalk game I'd play Mario Brothers.

Why is it so freaking difficult for Bethesda to fix a game they allow you to break way too quickly, and for absolutely no cost (not monetarily speaking)?

The fix is easy:

1. Scale difficulty off of level
2. Game checks level of improvements (Epic, Flawless, Legendary, etc) on gear and weapons and adjusts difficulty, damage output, resistances, armor rating and magic damages accordingly on top of any scaling from level
3. Game checks level of gear and armor rating and adjusts difficulty on top of #2 and #1
4. Game checks level of abilities and perks and further adjusts on top of #3, #2, and #1 (Mainly, this is because having 5/5 Barbarian turns the game into a cakewalk)
5. Game checks the Difficulty setting present (Adept, Expert, Master) and adjusts one last time

Basically, what this does is adjusts the games difficulty and suits your character's difficulty needs accordingly. All the difficulty adjustments would have varying degrees. For instance, the adjustments would be much more dramatic on Master than on Adept, but since the game is adjusting based on other criteria, your needs are met. Another good example is, if I'm sitting in Daedric armor all Legendary at level 44 with 100 Two Handed, 100 Smithing and 100 Heavy Armor, my Master difficulty wouldn't be the same as someone at a different level, while using lesser improvements and gear. Taking into account this criteria rids the game of its "cardboard box" and generic difficulty settings. It makes difficulty more dynamic. Sitting in amazing gear with great perks at Master may be TOO difficult for now, so I drop down one where the criteria remains the same but the math used is slightly different...offering me a difficulty I'm more in love with.

Take the other side of the token. There are those here that proclaim that the game is difficult on Adept. Or maybe it's too easy on Adept but Expert is a little too hard. Having the game scale off of these criteria would adjust things more to your liking. If you're sitting at moderate skill levels and bouncing all over with perks and still in mundane armor, that's ok, because the game would adjust depending on what you're wearing, what your skill levels are and what kind of perks you're employing. Overall, the game adjusts to how you're playing and not some generic difficulty level. This doesn't require an overhaul in AI. It's algorithms and a bunch of numbers. Algorithms and numbers I'm not prepared to supply as I'm not in the business of making games. I'm in the business of playing games. And as it stands right now, Skyrim has begun to lose its luster.

I can't stress this enough: This has nothing to do with hours played. I could have twice the hours as you but you have twice the gear, perks, improvements and skill levels. It doesn't matter. The game adjusts. We all know that the Elder Scrolls games BEG to be played for hundreds of hours. I would say that there may be a goodly amount of things to see and do in the game still, but I don't feel the need to do these things when I can do them with my eyes closed. If I plan on staying on Nirn for any longer, I will need to feel challenged. Have a reason to plunge its depths. Hours played is such an awful litmus to judge the game on. I could have twice the hours as you but less of the game finished. Again, none of this matters.

Please read and comment. TL;DRtards need not apply.

Nice effort, but I have a gripe with number 2. If the game checked your level of improvement of items when scaling, then improving items is entirely unnecessary. Actually, same goes for number 3. Getting new gear would be unproductive if the game scaled off of that. My preferred solution is to have enemies scale based only on combat related skills, but again we run into problems as non-combat skills can surely augment combat skills, e.g. a strong poison.

Basically I think Bethesda did a pretty decent job. Much better than previous efforts. Can it be improved, probably, but I think your solutions would merely create different problems while solving some old ones. Where is Oscuro when you need him?

IMO scaling should be related to distance from main roads and cities. Seriously. Think about it.

No scaling.

Fixed.

This is nice and simple and makes a lot of sense.

Actually it goes with everything about "scaling".
Gratz, you just discovered why the entire concept of scaling is completely idiotic in a level-based system !

Heh, I think I surprised myself I like it so much I made it my signature

Its a catch 22, if you don't have level scaling, the open world is no longer open.

If you do, another premise of the game is broken.

wel, yeah, but in order to remain free-form some scaling is a good thing. But only a little.

Oh, really? Have you ever played SMB III with an old controller, on an old TV on your original nintendo system? Without glitching or bugging the game. Yeah, i'd like to see you try beating it as a cakewalk. No game today has anything on '90s game difficulties.

OT: I really really do not mind level scaling. I play a lot of RP Pen and Paper games and i know how it's like when you put skills and feats into stuff that's not combat related. You will svck. And if you try to loop around the rules or make a caster you will own (Again, this is in pen and paper dnd, for example). Secondly, this is an OPEN game. Making it use your algorithm will take way too much time and make it too linear. I.e it will make it a close minded game where you will always be challenged, and feel absolutely no progress. Why should the enemy be more difficult just because i am better skilled? This is exactly the problem Oblivion had. Level 32 100 marksmanship, and i need to hit a minotaur king 1000 times with my arrow to kill him, when instead i should have just used speechcraft and....had to shoot him 1000 times before i kill him. You see the point? People who get more skilled in something just simply have to feel progress, here i do not see progress, i see staleness where you get "difficulty" in the fact that stats increase based on what stats you have, which is, well dumb.

There is also static leveling, which would make this game feel linear, and not sandbox like. Did GTA (bad example but hear me out) have any enemies that were tougher than the rest in any game? No, because it's open. If i want to run around, destroying things with my Conan the Barbarian Nord i am going to do just that. I have no interest in a mod that will make every bandit in the game Conan II, just because of my skills.

If you truly wish for a game that challenges you with every enemy, and you want it to be Skyrim, wait until the CK comes out and make yourself a mod that does just that.

Oh, well, if it just checks for all possible variables, then suitably adjusts encounters in a fine tuned and tested manner...

That's just easy. Probably two lines of code. They could put one guy on it and have it pushed out tomorrow.

In fact, I bet it's so easy the OP could demonstrate the code for us right here.

Why? There aren't any wimps in the mountains?

This. This. 100x this. Bethesda did try and implement it somewhat in this game with having "higher elevated areas" more dangerous i.e snow versions of ordinary beasts. But it could be done so much better. Why is there a saber toothed cat lying down in the middle of a road which I can only guess is popular as it's one of the only main paths from A to B?

This would be better

It's not broken so can't be 'fixed'.

I've offered this retort up on another board and I'll do it here. Generally, in any other game, if you want "legendary" items and gear you had to fight for them. Maybe the game offered a quest chain you had to complete. Maybe you have to fight a tough boss. There's a sense of accomplishment when you complete this task to get your Legendary gear.

An example:

In, say, Final Fantasy 10 (wasn't a big fan - just stick with me here) if you wanted a Legendary weapon you had to fight a decently strong boss. On your way to that boss were mobs that would do anything to stop you in your path.
In Skyrim if you want a Legendary weapon you sit at a whetstone wheel. Then break the game.

The idea about things getting more difficult the further you are from a road is a fun and neat idea. No scaling at all is a terrible idea as it begs the game to become incredibly stale. The game checking your level of improvements and items wouldn't turn the AI into some incredibly hard and overpowered entity. Getting great gear should come with rewards, no? What it does is offers you a challenge. Mobs on the way to that Dragon Priest would become more difficult. The Dragon Priest itself would be boosted...but not to a degree that it can't be beat. In fact, if you can go in with lesser gear and win the day, isn't THAT a reward in and of itself? It would present challenges, a need for strategy and tactics in your fights. As it stands now, I waltz in, hit RT twice and it's done. Blech.

My only grip is NOT scaling, afaik they ve done a good job, my grip is with the dif level.
On top dificulty level we run again in the porcupine problem, there s so many ways to scale a game, slow player advancement, ennemy hit harder, ennemy more skilled, more ennemies , less treasure etc, no need to give huge amount of HP that only let the game boring

Wow... This is so simple, and so brilliant. It would fix scaling entirely.

I said the fix was easy. Not the work involved. Read more carefully.

It stands to reason. More so than magic auto levelling enemies. Low level foes for the roadways, so new low level players can progress without being excluded from important parts of the game. The further you travel from civilised roads & cities, the more powerful your foes, requiring you to achieve higher levels. If you come across a quest that requires you to go deep into the wilderness, you need to level up appropriately, or not, up to you.

That way, the level of challenge is entirely up to how far you dare go into unknown territory. If some place is just too difficult for you to get to, well, that's the limit of your current level I guess. Level up and go forth

Old style linear static level zones are still alot of fun.

No.
That's just a canned answer overused, but it's still wrong, just abusing to the death the vague idea of "freedom" and stretching it well beyond the point it has broken into pieces, to find an attempt at justifying scaling. You don't need any scaling to keep freedom in a game, as long as you don't twist what "freedom" means into "nonsense".

Scaling. No scaling. It doesn't matter. Because of these varying criteria the game will feel challenging and rewarding no matter what. Are you a slower progresser, taking your time and RPing more? Fine! The game adjusts! Are you a min/maxer and more efficient with progression? Fine! The game adjusts.

Win/Win

I don't see the problem here.

That's vaguely similar to what they did in MW. The areas around the cities were mostly fairly tame. As you ventured into the wilderness, it got tougher. Visit a Daedric Shrine (except those being patrolled by the Temple), a Dwemer Ruin, the Ash Wastes, or the cordoned-off and blighted Red Mountain area and it got downright nasty. You could generally get a pretty good feel for what you were in for at a glance...."hmmm, this isn't looking good"...and decide whether to turn back or continue.

DIFFICULTY WAS VOLUNTARY.

I may have misread your point, but it seems like you said the game should be Harder if you upgrade your equipment to Legendary and wahtnot

Then, one might ask, WHY WOULD YOU UPGRADE? You would end up just making your enemies equally stronger...

And if the game just gets 20% harder when you get 20% stronger, why would you ever level up?