It's called checking the entire thread or you know..the tons of other threads that have discussed the issue. If you don't know the run down on the issues by now you're intentionally not looking.

What someone else said over and over again...

A person can choose to play a weak character, why shouldn't they be allowed to choose to play godly one? Should they just remove the lockpick perks altogether because they only serve to hinder your combat prowess if you choose them over combat oriented perks?


P.S. How many posts past 200 will this get?

So much this.

I don't want to see choices being removed from the game, and as it is, especially with a warrior, you have the choice to play any type of warrior you like (bar horse-mounted).

Steel plate + my greatsword Caledfwlch. Pure awesomeness.

My favourite type of gameplay is scale armour, crafted up to about 400 DR, with my 2 blades swords smithed up 200%. Battles don't take long, I dish out lots of damage, but my [censored] gets handed to me if I let a mob get around behind me and start whacking. Or then there's my tank, where I get into my 250% smithed daedric, with my whopping Daedric greatsword (called BFG 9000 in honour of the game that started it all), crafted up to dishing out 600 dam with 100 fire and 100 shock damage, for when you just want to rampage!!!

All choices freely available to anyone, and one suspects would be taken from me had some people their way.

That in and of itself is actually not the issue since the game already has a flat way of doing that. Enemies scale to 50, you scale to 81. That is not the problem with Smithing, and the loop of doom. Unfortunately people are propping up a lot of strawmen and then going, "See no problems!"

I would like to see Unique weapons like Goldbrand to be legendary quality out of the gate because it's from a GOD for god's sakes. I don't want to improve smithing. I don't mind using normal weapons but when I get a GODS weapon I expect it to be in GOD-like condition.

I think the problem is that with alot of builds the game is too hard sometimes in dungeons, and when you do start smithing/enchanting (wich is too easy to level up), the game gets too easy.
This has nothing to do with 'exploiting', its just something thats not balanced properly. And although this is indeed not an MMOrpg, balancing gameplay is still important because it gives the singleplayer more fun playing the game.

I can't wait to make a Monk character. Restrictions include the following:
- Must only use blunted weapons/fists (most likely going Kitty for the claw bonus)
- Cannot wear "metal" armor types (cloth, leather, forsworn, etc are all fair game)
- Cannot wear head armor, only hoods/circlets

Without smithing the way it is, I cannot do this on Master (my desired) difficulty. I would like to be able to. If some people had their way I could not.

I was asking what YOU thought I didn't address regarding what issues needed addressing, since you decided to say in your words that I didn't address whatever issues it is you were referring to. I've read enough of the thread, I've been responding quite a lot for the last few pages, perhaps you failed to notice that. Or you were intentionally not looking?

But you can keep right on acting like that, because I can just as equally dismiss you for trolling on the same count.

Now I'll get some sleep.

Maybe I'll put it to the test and make a no combat/craft perk character since I'm not required to spend my perks.

See earlier comment on checking the thread. Some "off the top of my head" issues and potential fixes is one of the earlier posts.

Some "exploits" are so easy to get and hard to avoid. If you make a dual wielding assasin it's almost impossible not to break the game. I mean after sneak, alchemy and one handed skills are 100, most natural choice is going for illusion and/or smithing and even these two skills breaks the game when utilised with a pure assasin. What now then: should i avoid this build? Should i use two handed war hammers to nerf my assasin? Shouldn't take illusion at high levels and instead go for heavy armor?

Balance patches are necessary and thank god New Vegas had them and i hope skyrim will have too...

The "loop of doom" is something which ahs to be actively chased, and is not something that one comes across in their normal gameplay, not matter what level your skills are at.

Again, a lack of self control by the player should not be blamed on Bethesda. We all know where the blame for this lies.

Again this is a strawman. The loop of doom is actually an issue formed by the combination of a couple issues. The main one is only incidentally attached to the skills because the problem is caused by how bonuses stack. THAT is really really easy to fix. Technically you could do the same thing with non exploits of weapon damage bonuses but that in and of itself looks very much like "working as intended." Enchanting beyond that is actually, as mentioned early, fairly balanced. It's only issue then is that it is a very top heavy skill.

Smithing has issues all on it's own BEFORE the loop issues.

Also Again, a lack of self control by the player should not be blamed on Bethesda. We all know where the blame for this lies. rule zero fallacy and it actually IS Bethesda's fault, more specifically whoever was overlooking how bonuses stack and if they are percentage based, additive,etc. This is basic math.

Another option would be to not spend the perks, or... fill out the lock picking tree if you are a pure assassin. A proper elite assassin would be able to make wax keys and all that. What should they do about Shadow Warrior? It lets you sneak attack at any point. If you don't use it for that or to confuse enemies it becomes quite a crap skill. Even using it to confuse it feels cheesy and unpolished.

Edit:
If I choose to not spend any perks and play on master difficulty in no armor with my bare hands, do I have a right to complain about being weak?

If I choose to min max my character and play on novice difficulty, do i have a right to complain about being too strong?

The answer is yes to both.

You keep repeating rule zero fallacy like a mantra. I do not think it means what you think it means....

Again, the "loop of doom" is not something that one comes across without actively chasing it, so not a problem. Not abusing the mechanics of the game is an easy fix, and one that should be taken if one wishes to avoid this "problem". Player choice... unless, of course, you feel it's necessary for BGS to wet nurse you.

Now the fortify restoration potion loop. That would be an actual glitch.

If I own Skyrim on PC i can use the console to cheat. Therefore it should be removed. If you say I should use self control.... rule zero fallacy. Rule Zero Fallacy doesn't apply well to a game based around choice.

I know what it means. The just don't use the skills responses are rule zero fallacy.

Also


This actually reads like you didn't even read my post so I'm going to assume from now on you don't really READ what other people are posting.

No one is suggesting not using the skills. With even 200% smithed weps and armour, on master, the character can still be killed by a great many higher level creatures, and quite easily. As a warrior, an arch cryomancer will ruin your day very quickly. If you want to use recursive looping to go beyond that however, then that choice is yours. If you do not like the consequences of those choices, you do not have to use said crafted items. No one has suggested you do not use the skills, although if you truly desire a higher level of challenge, which I suspect you, along with so many others, do not truly desire, but if you DO desire a higher level of challenge, then yes, you do not HAVE to use those skills. That would be your choice.

The real issue here is, are you playing within the intended game mechanics, or do you have ungodly weapons? If you are finding everything one shot on master, then the true answer can only be yes to this. If so, and you do not like them, head to a bandit camp, kill a bandit, and place the unwanted items on the bandits corpse. After 30 in-game days, IIRC, they will respawn, and your problem will be solved, and the items with do offend you so will be despawned from the game.

What should have been done, imo, was to make us put some effort into leveling these skills so that they are more enjoyable and not so easy to level and so that we don't have to use 100 self-imposed restrictions to level them in harmony.

Not why people are complaining about Smithing in and of itself.

Already been explained by multiple people in different threads about some of the issues with Smithing and Enchanting by themselves.

No I don't hope it happens because frankly I don't care what other people do in single player games.

The whole "OMGWTFBBQ Smithing and Enchanting is overpowered!!!!!!!!1111111" drama going on here at the forums is just plain stupid.

Which is why I'd consider that a low priority fix. Things like stealth making you virtually undetectable at fairly low levels even without perks I consider a bigger issue. I also don't like 100% reduction to magicka I think it should cap, while yes I can self impose a limit and I do a exploit that obvious isn't much of an exploit even if it breaks a game mechanic. IOW there are plenty of issues where people don;t really have to actively peruse an attempt to be overpowered and yet they become overpowered, and that should be the highest priority for balance fixes.

That argument doesn't make any sense for single player game design. For that matter it doesn't even make any sense in regards to games that are single player or multiplayer.

Why would you hope for a nerf? This isn't a multiplayer game.

>care about what others are doing in their single player experience
>mfw I have no face

Agreed, smithing and enchanting are too easy to level up, but at higher char levels, the results aren't overpowered, all people want to do is remove yet more player options from the game. Not a good option to anyone who enjoys TES, which has historically provided a world in which the char can pretty much be who they want to be.

Simple solution, don't buy 500 iron ingots and deliberately grind out iron daggers, not hard to do, just play normally, anyone who does so knows what they're doing, no sympathy here.