By pure I mean characters that stick to a single combat style, such as two-handed, archery, or magic. All my characters have been archers, and except for the first, they never use sneak or melee weapons. While it's fun to use poisons and sprint to keep melee dudes off my back, it's very repetitive. I know that on these forums it is commonly advised to not have a jack of all trades character as it kills replayability, but the thing is, unless you go pure mage, there is not enough variety in a pure character to keep one interested for 50 levels.

Then I had an epiphany of sorts. Do you think it would be possible, through some hardcoe self-gimping, to create a sword and dagger sneaker that lands a single backstab and then has to resort to bow kiting to not get roflstomped? I'm thinking iron weapons and hide armor only (possibly improved via smithing), at master difficulty to make tanking in hide impossible. I've never played a melee sneaker so I'm not sure how it works. I know multiple backstabs on the same target are possible, so how can I prevent that so I'm forced to fall back on the bow?

as you said, many on this forum advocate sticking to a few skills, specializing and repeat playthroughs.

i have played all 3 major archetypes and some limited combos and found myself very bored on subsequent characters.

the truth is that the hybrid character is by far my most powerful character and the funnest to play.

why? because i only pick the skills and perks that give TRUE power to my character and it allows me to play however i'd like at every battle and every gaming session.

I'm playing a Spell Blade whom is a pure magic character.

But what you're suggesting reminds me of Rashir Nashida whom is a Night Assassin [a class I made up] who uses dagger backstabs and bow from distances or when he is running around trying to stay away from the horrible swords.

My new Dunmer (created just last night) is going to give the jack-of-all-trades angle a try. I had just finished playing a pure mage, and while conjuration/destruction combo is fun, that's about all I did. I perked in basically three trees (alchemy being the third) and found that while my game felt different (especially combat), I had become quite limited as a character.

So, I'm trying out a Dunmer thief-assassin that oddly prefers heavy armor, sneak, pickpocket, illusion, smithing, archery and one-handed. I'll see how it goes. Really forcing myself to engage in the illusion spells. Have never utilized them much at this point (500+ hours).

I only think it becomes boring if you only ever play one character.

I find that it is the other way around.

If you make a multi tasker, then any other character you create will be the same.

Having a heavy armored warrior and then play a second character who is a light armored thief and the two are very different and play very different.

I also only play good quests for my warrior / mage and then play the evil quests for my thief / assassin.

Not enough perks to make a solid multi-purpose character. Sure they're playable but nowhere near as strong as a single purpose character. I've made a mage, a thief/assassin, and a warrior all set up to be pure characters and they've all been very enjoyable and played totally different from each other. Originally I wanted to make a mixed character but when I looked over the perk trees and realized how few points I would have I decided against it.

I don't know that it's the character builds that make the game repetitive - it's the quests. I enjoy a lot of the quests in Skyrim, but there's basically only a single path for each one, meaning if you've done it once, you're not going to get anything new on a subsequent playthrough.

The only way to get a new experience in a given dungeon or questline is to change your approach/attitude, and that usually means a different build.

I tend to enjoy focused, "pure" builds myself, especially when playing a magic user. I like to make a Destruction mage who only uses Destruction spells, or a pure summoner, or something like that. But I also like hybrids - provided I have a very clear character concept. I don't like to be able to do everything for the sake of it.

Currently I'm playing a rogue modelled after the D&D Rogue class. I'm allowing myself to use sword, dagger, and bow, but I'm using the bow more heavily than one-handed. I'm also limiting my perks in those skill trees so that my best option is always stealth and avoidance, if possible. I'm perking up Light Armor, but keeping my Health relatively low. I'm also perking up classic rogue skills like Pickpocket, Sneak, Lockpick, and perhaps Speech. I also do a little Alchemy. No other skills.

I could easily see making a character who used all those skills, but focused on them differently to make an uber-killer-assassin of awesomeness. But that's not what I want to do, so I'm being careful with my perk and stat allocation.

That sounds like the kind of thing you're planning with your melee/archer type. I think it will work, as long as it's a playstyle you can enjoy. The challenge with your concept is, if your sneak is high enough to slit throats, why not shoot from the shadows with your bow? (I know the metagame reason - sneak archery can get repetitive) And if your character plans to sneak attack with melee weapons, why wouldn't he go all out and make those hits 1-shot kills?

I'm not saying it won't work for you, but I would need to know a bit more about why the character would think that method is a good idea.

Every kind of character can be interesting if you find an interesting way to play it.
That said, you can always mix up some skills so spice the gameplay up. Just refrain from creating lots of "jacks-of-all-trades". They get boring and confusing really soon.

like i've responded to you before, what you're sayin just isn't true.

i've made all the archetypes and with the appropriate choices my hybrid is by far the most powerful.

there are so many perks that people think add power to their characters when they actually don't add much, at all.

no, you can't get all the skill perks. but, that has nothing to do with creating an all-powerful hybrid.

on master, by level 60, i can dominate with magic, combat or thief skills. and, obviously, with any combo.

and, i still around 20 more perks to go.

edit: if you don't believe me, exploit helgen and the trade skills to build up perk points and start experimenting.

you think being able to play with combat, magic and thief skills is boring?

after doing all the archetypes my hybrid is by far the most enjoyable and stopped me from putting skyrim on a shelf.

every time i play i can use whatever method and tactic i feel like that particular day or battle.

Don't you need to jack of trades to get the high levels? All skills need to be 100 to be level 81.

Yes
But that would be terribly out of character for any of my characters.

To each their own.

actually, you just keep saying that hybrids aren't as powerful. that's not an arguement.

i have played pure characters. i've done all the builds and gotten to high levels on master. i found the pure characters to be very boring and one-dimensional. as well, you don't actually get to play those characters as you conceived them until so far late in the game that it is already too easy. i got to play my character as i pre-planned it much sooner in the game. it just took me some hours to exploit the trades and pick my perks.

the pure builds are not even close to as powerful as my hybrid. i dominated the game at master much sooner. why? because i didn't have to wait to get the high level perks that DO NOT actually add true power to your character. it's just simple fact that many of the higher perks are for purely cosmetic and rp purposes and not for the power gamer.

and, another advantage of this type of build is that i can play however i'd like during any battle on master and dominate.

but, as you say, to each their own. i wanted to powergame a character and with the help of others, i have found out how to create the most powerful and most versatile character possible.

Pretty much everything you say is based on your personal preference of how you like to play the game. It doesn't change the fact that this time around you can't top out all the abilities like you could in previous games. Yes you can make a hybrid capable of beating the game. Skyrim is not that hard. But if you break down your hybrid, none of the seperate parts will be as good as that of a pure character. Still functional yes, still able to beat the game yes, but not as powerful. It's numerically impossible. Even on pure characters I don't fill in all the trees as there aren't even enough points for that. I am still forced to pick and choose perks to optimize the class. I never get much above level 50 on any character and that's not a lot to spread around for a hybrid. I would like to see this hybrid build of yours. Why not post where you put your points to make this most powerful of all characters. I'm curious now. Also what level did you go to in order to get your points for it?

Meh, so I went ahead and started my dagger and bow guy. Didn't do it for me :/. Turns out backstabbing is even duller than sneak archery.

So it seems that if you want to have a character that you won't get bored of at level 20ish, you need to take some form of magic. svcks.

I would fully agree that hybrids are just as strong, if not stronger then pure characters. A number of perks only add a small degree of power. Very few actually dramatically increase your characters power. And hybrids are a lot more enjoyable to play! If anything, I would do away with the generic increase power by x% perks. They are the srongest and most boring perks!

Enchant + Smithing are the strongest perks - hands down.

What???? How about in your face two hand axe style? That is a lot of fun. Sneak is way to OP. They need to tweak the detection ranges for indoors. It is literally a one second fix to stealth

I think its more fun spreading out your skills like i love being a sneaky archer but i also use heavy amour and one-handed alot
put a couple arrows in someone then finish them off with sword and shield
i also love smithing and enchanting whitch is odd for my wood elf but i do it anyway

Hmm. I'm not sure that I've ever made a "pure" character. Either by the definition given here, or definitely not by the "only use skills in one archetype" version.

(Most likely a factor of playing a game that lets you use whichever skills you want, instead of being straightjacketed into a rigid class like most other RPGs. Given the opportunity, I'll avail myself of it. )



Perhaps it can be more powerful, but a spread-out build can also be less ("jack of all trades, master of none"). I know that my first Skyrim character, who used a mix of skills from the three archetypes, certainly didn't lose it's challenge until the high 40's. On Adept.

Any Character type can be fun or boring, it all depends on the gamer and how they want to play. I've played with every weapon/skill type and i haven't been bored with any. Frustrated sometimes, but not bored.

i like all 3 groups of skills, though, magic is by far my least favorite.

what i'm saying is that you DON'T need to get all of the high level skills to be all-powerful. you don't need to top them out. therefore, it only makes sense that the hybrid would be the most powerful.

i can start a run down of each skill and their perks:

archery= base x5 up to power shot, for sure, with quick shot and critical being great additions. bullseye is not worth it. firing another arrow is better.

block= tricky cuz it's bugged, but, base x1, shield and elemental are all you need. can add to base depending on whether your playstyle gets you to the max ac. all the bash perks do not add power. another 1-h/bow strike is better. plus, the default bash is good enough.

heavy vs light= i go light because it takes me 5 perks to get to deft. base x1 with additions depending on playstyle and how you get to max ac.

1-h vs 2-h= 1-h plus shield. base x5, fight stance and sav strike. that's it. the specific weapon types add very little xtra damage vs another regular swing. paralyze not better than more attacks and can be substituted with spell or potion.

sneak= basix1, backstab and deadly aim. can get assassin with muffle up to silence.

right there my hybrid is as powerful as can be without any magic, yet, and, it took about 20 perks.

the rest really depends on how you're going to play to reach the max ac. and, that's an important aspect to plan out because you will, obviously, be wasting perks.

i'll do magic later.

There's not enough reason or benefit to specialization for it to be a truly realized build. Perks are far too generic, and there are not enough modifiers for specific styles. Combat related perk trees in my opinion should have had two to three times the amount of perks, with high tiered perks at the very top, only reachable by expending a certain amount of points in the tree total...with some perks being unable to be taken if an equivalent perk in different trees are taken.

What? No, I said that making all your characters focus on too many skills gets confusing. But I think mixing is the root of all fun, I prefer hybrid builds to archetypes.

No, you need to play another game. Magic is boring too.