Was I the only one who was utterly and completely dissapointed with Arniels Dwemer quest? I love Skyrim, but seriously...This quest is a complete shoehorn. Really, Arniel was able to duplicate what happened to the Dwarves by hitting a rock with an axe? Dayvith Fyr couldn't even figure out how it happened...Dagoth Ur, for all intense and purposes a living [censored] GOD, couldn't figure it out...and all of a sudden this [censored] gathers some cogs, heats some rocks, and hits [censored] with an axe and TA DA?

-On the Disappearance of the Dwarves-

"It was unfashionable among the Dwemer to view their spirits as synthetic constructs three, four, or forty creational gradients below the divine. During the Dawn Era they researched the death of the Earth Bones, what we call now the laws of nature, dissecting the process of the sacred willing itself into the profane. I believe their mechanists and tonal architects discovered systematic regression techniques to perform the reverse -- that is, to create the sacred from the deaths of the profane."

"As the Dwemer left no corpses or traces of conflict behind, I believe that generations of ritualistic 'anti-creations' resulted in their immediate, but foreseen removal from the Mundus. They retreated behind math, behind color, behind the active principle itself. That the Dwemer vanished during a conflict with Nerevar and the Tribunal is merely coincidence."

***They retreated behind math, behind color, behind the active principle itself.***

ARNIEL HITS A ROCK AND SURPRISE DWARVEN ANTI-CREATION MAGIC

In Morrowind you go through that whole quest chain of finding the Hanging Gardens and Chimerviridian (sp?) where you actually become a part of the research of two powerful mages trying to figure it out, and it's some incredibly abstract stuff that leaves all this air of mystery. In the end even the sharpest minds in all of Morrowind couldn't really figure it out... But it was still fascinating, and got me deeply engaged in the Dwemer lore. Even if there was no real answer to find, the stuff you did figure out was great. I found Arniels quest absolutely ridiculous in comparison...

Unnecessary complication doesn't make something any better or worse.

Its just extra b.s that gets in the way, and some people... hell they just get lucky.

I would have put this in the spoiler sub-forum, but perhaps that is too complicated as well.

Necessary complication makes a story credible.

First your assuming that he experiment was successful, unless a Dwemer shows up and talks about Arniel we won't ever know the truth.
Second he hit a rock with a knife, keening. He wasn't able to acquire sunder.
Third your assuming you know what the dwarves did, maybe it was hiting a rock(the heart) with keening and a sunder. That served as a key component. Your taking how an engine works and simplfying it to turning a key.

Luckily your first couple of lines weren't descriptive enough to spoil anything, but I haven't done this quest..

I'd respectfully ask this gets put in the correct sub forum..

Conflict and complication aren't necessarily the same thing, but yes... complication can provide depth or it can provide useless delay of progress.

All in the delivery.

I was thinking more along the lines of a Sci-Fi film where the major breakthrough in science that leads to inter-galactic travel is burning cow dung could only be a comedy, whereas a complicated explanation makes it a credible Sci-Fi flick.

Although I agree the delivery makes the difference between complicated and convoluted.

In my game he actually didn't hit it with Keening, which is funny. He hit it with his enchanted Orcish Axe. That's why I said axe, sorry.

But yeah, ok...Let's say thats true. Let's say what happened to the Dwarves did involve using the tools of Kragnac to strike Lorkhans heart. This is very likely, as it seems to be the key to a lot of what's described in the books. I'm not claiming I know exactly what they did...What I'm saying is how could they have Arniel figured out something that seems so pea-brained simple when some of the most powerful mages and talented scholors in Morrowind (and in Tamriel altogether) couldn't figure it out? Never mind that Dayvith Fyr had a freakin Dwarf living with him, Arniel just had a hunch one day and figured it out. It really just seems anti-climactic to me.

If he knew something they didn't, I would have liked that explained. And even if the experiment was a failure, it was still a very poor introduction to the mistery of the Dwarves. I mean...We have Bethesda trying to appeal to a wider audience with Skyrim here, shouldn't have they tried to make a better impression for those who don't know whats what with the Dwarves? There's almost nothing to be said about the history of what the Dwemer of Skyrim were about, or what they tried to do with Numidium, or anything at all that Morrowind touched on. I would love it they took a more abstract approach to the whole thing like Morrowind did, but I'm not even talking about that. I'm talking about just putting some well rounded exposition on them. What we get here is just Arniel telling you to do some boring fetch quests, hitting a rock, and dissapearing. How is this supposed to get anyone interested in the Dwemer if this is the first game they hear about them?

In Morrowinds quest line people actually try to explain it to you. They get you to read books. Yagrum Bagarn sheds some insight. People are figuring stuff out, and you're in on the loop. It gave me the initiative to WANT to figure this stuff out and find secrets in books or quests. There are holes in the mystery, but you still feel like you're getting the complete package you know? In Skyrim I could easily picture someone who's not yet familiar with the Dwemer just scratching their head over the conclusion of Arniels quest and being like "Uhh....Ok, whatever. And all I get is this crappy dagger? PFFTTT What a load".

Doesn't Arniel dedicated a big parts of his life studying the dwemer? That could explain why he know so many things.

He didn't actually know that this caused the dissapearance of the dwarves he assumed.
It's logical that since the events of Morrowind more information came out about what caused it. The Tribunal after all had good reason to keep things a secret
He tried to re-create the heart of a god using soulgems.
He did hit it with Keening (or at least should have)
The effects are that he vanished, we have no idea why or how... It's not like the Dwemer because the rest of his race remains.

Edit: To make things clear, I do agree with most of your critisism, I'm just saying the quest and outcome make some sense..

I wonder, why we can't dissapear like him if i hit the sould gem too with Keen?

Cause the gem stopped working after one go? All energy from it went straight with him to Oblivion..

At least that's my theory.

That NPC was such a loon. I doubt he actually succeeded in anything apart from getting a wtf out of me.

I agree this topic probably should be moved.

However, Arniel had a theory and it was wrong. I write this because you get to summon his shade with a spell you get post quest. You couldn't do that if he was right.

Arniel is as much as expert as all those you have mentioned. He has dedicated his whole life to researching this, so it comes as no shock he sort of figured some stuff out. Also, who says that just because you can summon his shade he failed? It is like summoning a Atronach or Dremora Lord, they come from Oblivion for a short time(unless you have the perk) and then go back, just like Arniel's shade. If anything, he succeeded, because now we know where the Dwemer went.

Well in my game, Arniel didn't even use keening to hit the warped soul gem. He used an ancient nord greatsword. Where and when he got that, is beyond me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=380MLqSYcac&context=C364d7c7ADOEgsToPDskK5eCpRNN2UDhVjNPs65FY7

They should have called it arniel's bugged endeavour.


How come everyone gathered around to watch? Do they normally do that?

Maybe, but he is also infinitely more stupid than Fyr.
He didnt understand enough about Kagrenac's machinations to predict the dangers of tampering with Keening in such a way and he only succeeded in killing himself and binding his spectre to the closest living entity. (Dovakhiin.)
This is not exactly what Kagrenac did with the Heart and Numidium.
Fyr would never attempt an experiment like that, not with such dangerous chances of uncertain death*.
I suppose we are lucky he only had a soulgem and not the Heart, or maybe the Dovakhiin would have ended up with every Breton bound to him.

*Uncertain death is much worse than certain death. I am quite uncertain of how it will feel to have your whole body svcked through a hole the size of a pinprick, only that I never want to find out.

That's some scary stuff Merari.
Why you have to go and say that.