Stats should import those I think. Odd.

@ Arwen
Regarding the stealth thing (still haven't tested it mind you): my main fear is creating artificial difficulty for stealth based characters mainly due to limitations in the engine. Let me explain: if I'm close to the character and I jump or the door is in his line of sight then fine, I can understand (and enjoy) the fact that he/she get suspicious since that's what you'd expect to happen. But if say a wall is between the door and the NPC (or if the NPC is several rooms away) I should be able to continue my sneaking without fear of the NPC looking for me. Can you set the visual and audio intensity of a detection event?

Possibly a missing feature of WF? "http://newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=36220" removes the "non-playable" and "can't drop" tags from companion weapons, and since BOSS sets it to load after ART core plugin it prevents the Object effects from ART from being imported to the patch. I moved the De-equippable companions plugin before ART core and tagged it with stats, but still only the plugin that loads last has it's changes imported to the patch :shrug: It is supposed to merge the changes, right?

You're right, just checked my bashed patch and the weapon effects are indeed left out even though I tagged Arwen's mod with stats. I think the automatic mode should have merged it as well (which is on by default) but it seems it hasn't. I'll poke valda and see if there's any way of merging it or something I'm missing.

EDIT: just saw you already did this XD

Thanks for explaining all that Imp.

Why did Obsidian make it so difficult to use a slower Timescale? You would think that they would have realized that changing the Timescale in the console is one of the first things that many players do. I have spent more time trying to overcome the Timescale issue than on any other single part of my NV Realism Tweaks. What a pain! :brokencomputer:

I'm going to combine my former Sleep Quest script with my NVSE Needs Quest script (which temporarily set the Timescale to 30 when you were sleeping). I'll also going to reset the Timescale during Fast Travel, as I'm guessing that any default menu mods that factor in the passage of time will likely cause the same problem. That should take care of the first issue.

I've been working on a Menu Time advancing script, which I was going to include in my Hard-Core module, as part of my Repair script (which I'm adding to my FO3 Tweaks). Now it appears that it might make more sense to add it to my Realism Core instead. From what you wrote, it appears that advancing time when in menu mode seems to be a work around for the second issue.

Thanks again for clarifying this.

Edited: Oh, I forgot about the bashed patch part. I REALLY do NOT recommend including my Realism Tweaks in a bashed patch. I'm not saying that it will never work, but it seems to make more problems than it solves. In my FO3 Tweaks, one of the biggest reasons that users had problems with my mod was that they tried to use it with incompatible mods, expecting that a bashed patch would make to two work together. When you make a bashed patch, some of my changes always get left out . . . which can often cause major problems.

No problem though this isn't exactly going to help with IMCN compatibility :bonk: I'm pretty sure you'd end up with double the menumode timescale.




This is another argument in favor of moving everything timescale related into a separate module, or the needs module, it'd help isolate the timescale related problems.

@ Arwen - Thanks for clearing up the whole "armor/weapons damage on death" thing. Loving your mod as its made my New Vegas experience that much more enjoyable ^_^ (guilty of not playing the FO3 version :whistling:)

Keep it up,
TheDamned

Another problem with lowered timescale - it messes up npc's fast travel routines, loose sight of a moving caravan for example, then return to them in a hour or two and see that they moved forward only a few meters...

Great, more problems. Timescale sure is a big pain in the ass in NV.

You sure that is a problem related to lowered timescale? Just asking because it doesnt really make any sense.

As I have already explained several times now:

The Med-Tec module (which is my separate Injuries/Needs module) will require the Realism Core module. My Realism Core module is exactly what its name states: it is my core module, which most of my other modules require and expand. And my Timescale changes are part of the Realism Core module, as they are changed in my Options Menu, so this is where my Needs/Timescale script belongs. Using a slower Timescale with the default game's hardcoe mode active results in a problem (dying in your sleep), due to the fact that that Need Rates are based on real time. My Med-Tec module will not be ready for release for weeks yet as it is the last module I plan on adding. If my Realism Core does not contain my Timescale changes, the user would be forced to either use the default 30 Timescale, or they would have to install another Timescale mod until I release my Med-Tec module. I've made this mod for myself, and I'm not leaving my Timescale changes out of my Core module. Compatibility patches can be used to make mods compatible.

I'm going to be releasing version 1.6 in a couple of days. This will be a minor update to correct some of the minor issues with v.1.5, a rebalance of my Weapon Effects, and a new NVSE quest script, that I'm calling Time Passes.

This new script is an expanded version of my Needs script, which also resets the Timescale to 30 during the default time passing menus (sleeping, resting, or traveling), which is what my earlier Sleep script did just while you were sleeping. When you exit these menus, your Timescale is restored to your selected Timescale. This was done to fix the default game bug that happens whens you are using a Timescale which is much slower than the default 30 and when you are in these menus for an extended period of time (such as when you are sleeping for 10 or 12 hours).

Another new feature that I added to this script is the "Time Passes" part, which is my own version of Menu Time. The game clock no longer stops while in most menus (includes Pip-Boy, Dialog, Trade, Repair, Crafting, and Gambling) . The NPCs and Creatures will still freeze while you are in menu mode, but the sun will now advance and your Needs will now increase. My default Menu Time Multiplier is 1.0 [time passes at the same rate as the rest of the game]. This works well for my default Timescale of 4, but you may want to use a slower rate with faster Timescales. This is selectable in my Options Menu (from 0.10 to 1.0; 90% slower than Timescale to same as Timescale rate).

I ran some extensive play testing over the last two days, and my new script worked very well, with no issues at all. I tested this at various Timescale settings, with various Menu Time multipliers. I mostly used my default settings: Timescale of 4, with my 1.0 Menu Time multiplier (while in the menus, time passes at the Timescale pace . . . just like the rest of the game). This totally changes how you treat menus, and adds quite a bit more immersion. In the default game, you can spend an hour gambling, but when you exit the casino, it is still the same time as when you went in. It now feels so much more realistic to walk out and see that time did indeed pass while I was in there, instead of feeling like time for the rest of the game world just stopped and waited for me to finish gambling. Just before sunset, I spent some time trading with a traveling merchant, which took longer than I intended . . . by the time we had finished trading, the sun had set and it was getting dark. Really makes you a LOT more frugal with the amount of time that you spend in menu mode. Before adding this to my game, I had been considering increasing my Timescale to 6, as days were feeling a bit too long . . . but now a Timescale of 4 feels about perfect.

The changes that I made to my 3 Weapon Effects seem to fix the problem of some creatures (like the geckos) getting stuck in an unconscious state. I also applied different formulas to the amount of fatigue that is lost when you are hit (whacked, shot, or blasted), and I increased the amount of fatigue that is restored when you come to (so it will now take more to knock you out again).

I was initially planning on including my Hard-Core module in v.1.6, but all my modding time the last few days has been focused on just fixing and improving v.1.5 (my Realism Core part). Rather than postpone v.1.6, I've decided to postpone the release of my Hard-Core module until v.1.7. There are a few other things that I'm playing around with, which may make it into v.1.6.

And why it doesn't? Looks like a game have some predefined value of distance traveled per game hour for npcs while they are unobserved, and if you set your timescale to 1 instead of default 30, npcs "fasttravel" 30 times slower.
While you see them they use a regular mesh navigation and no problem shows up, but go indoors for example and their movement is abstracted to some vector based equation that assumes timescale is 30.

Domein, I haven't noticed any caravan slowdown but I've been using my v.1.6 Beta for awhile, and that has my expanded Timescale script. For now, since no one else has reported the caravan bug, I can't do much about it (I would really have to see it in my own game, or have more information on it).

===============================================

I expected at least a little feedback/enthusiasm for what I posted three days ago . . . but I guess no one really cares about my expanded Needs/Timescale script or my new Menu Time addition.Apparantly there are just too many new mods now that are getting all the attention here. Whatever. Version 1.6 is nearly ready (look for it around mid day tomorrow).

For those who are actually interested, here's a bit more about the changes in v.1.6: Besides the expanded Needs/Timescale script, my new Menu Time script, I've rewritten all my Weapon Effects completely. I think most users will like the changes I made . . . especially the way your Armor DT (and the NPC's DT) is now factored into the amount of fatigue loss when hit (25 DT results in roughly have half as much fatigue loss per hit than 0 DT); and Radscorpions and Deathclaws will no longer be rendered unconscious when shot (and explosions will damage a lot less of their Fatigue than in v.1.5). I also finally figured out how to make it so your attacking enemy will no longer act like you disappeared when you are unconscious.

After a lot of tries, I also have the player's Fatigue displaying. Its nothing fancy, just a message that pops up. It is not perfect, and there is considerable lag when your fatigue is rapidly dropping, but it generally gives you a way to tell when your Fatigue is trouble. It only displays your current Fatigue when it is below 50%, or when your Fatigue drops (from being whacked, shot, or blasted). The message only lasts a couple of seconds and, when your Fatigue is not dropping, it only updates about every 30 seconds, until your Fatigue level get back above 50%. The Fatigue display optional (under the Weapon Effects). By default, all three of the Weapon Effects are disabled (along with the new fatigue display). I got pretty tired or uses complaining about my Weapon Effects, because they didn't bother to read my ReadMe enough to understand that they are all totally optional.

I was really hoping that v.1.6 would include my Hard-Core module, but I spend so much time redoing all my Weapon Effects (which involves a LOT of play testing) that I'm like a week behind now . . . so my next module needs at least another week of work before it will be ready for release. But v.1.6 is still a pretty major update . . . making my Realism Core more complete and better balanced than ever.

As an FYI Arwen, I have been playing FO3 while I wait for you and other modders to get their mods tweaked before I go whole-hog into FNV. I pre-ordered and installed right away - even played a little, but some of the bugs and things (like the insignificance of the Needs) left me wanting to wait a bit. So, while I haven't commented specifically on the changes in each version, I *have* been watching and waiting for your mods. Thank you for your hard work! It IS appreciated!

For some reason I missed that post entirely. The whole forums seem a bit slow the last few days. I blame the forum update, it also ate all our avatars.

Ah yes that's nice. I had a few occassions where I was knocked down almost immediately for a second time just after getting up.

Also your 'menu time' does sound interesting. But I think it's something you really have to see for yourself before you can judge it. Is the time spent in menus calculated first and then after closing it makes the time jump ahead a bit, or does time actually pass in the menus?


This sentence confused me a little, I think there's a word missing somewhere. You say DT factors in the amount of fatigue lost per hit, and then you say that with 25 DT you loss as much fatigue as with 0 DT.

:bowdown:

Thanks, it is good to hear that my posts are still being read . . . I was just feeling a bit neglected. My Realism Core module already alters the rates of the Needs, but your going to have to wait for my Hard-Core module for a reduction in the amount of found loot (but this won't change the amount of harvestable food and meat from kills . . . but I plan to tackle those as well . . . I'm just not sure how). A bigger problem is the reduction in your Needs from the individual ingestible items (and the issue that food and drinks restore HP). Right now my plan is to alter foods and beverages as part of my Med-Tec module . . . so it's going to be a while yet.


Yes, the avatar part was totally unexpected. I think they all ran off to an early Christmas Party . . . you know how those holiday office parties can be . . . I had to wake mine up, and she still looks a little bleary-eyed. -_-


Game time continues to pass, but your menu may not update until you close it and reopen it, and your Needs don't seem to increase until you close the menus (then they immediately are increased, based on how long you remained in menu mode). For instance, when you are in your Pip-Boy Stats menu, if you open your console, and type: "show GameHour" you will see that time is indeed passing. But if you type: "Player.GetAV Hunger" you will always get the same amount, until you close the menu.


I corrected it. It now reads: "(25 DT results in roughly have half as much fatigue loss per hit than 0 DT)" . . . it was late.

Version 1.6 is now available: http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34759

This version should pretty much complete my Realism Core (and fix the bugs that popped up in v.1.5).

Here are the major changes in v.1.6 (Realism Core): [/list] [*]Eye FX Quest Script: Adjusted when the night time darker Imod kicks in (remove your sunglasses at night, or in poorly lit interiors).[/list]
New Time Passes Quest Script (formerly Needs Quest script):

• Rates same as v.1.5 (based on game hours, and automatically adjusts for Timescale).
  
• Timescale temporarily reset to default while sleeping, waiting, and fast traveling (formerly Sleep Quest script)
  
• Menu Time: The game clock no longer stops while in most menus (includes Pip-Boy, Dialog, Trade, Repair, Crafting, and Gambling). The actors will still freeze while you are in menu mode, but the sun will now advance and your Needs will now increase. Default Menu Time equals your Timescale rate (can be reduced in Options Menu).

Overhauled Weapon Effects (applies to all 3 effects):

• Effects are disabled by default . . . enable them in the options menu. (I got tired of uses asking me to remove these, when they can simply turn them off.)
  
• All three scripts were totally rewritten and rebalanced, and AGL and PER penalties were reduced in both magnitude and duration (Gunshot now only -2 AGL for only 2 real minutes).
  
• Companions should no longer drop their unique weapons, and Creatures will no longer become stuck in the game's unconscious animation bug (at least not due to my Effects).
  
• Player will now yelp in pain when hit if their fatigue < 30 (warning that next hit will likely knock you out).
  
• New Fatigue Display: Player's fatigue amount is displayed briefly whenever it drops, and also every 30 seconds when it is below 50%. This is just a simple message display, so there is lag when fatigue is being damaged rapidly. Disabled by default.
  
• Armor DT is now factored into fatigue loss (roughly half as much lost per hit with 25 DT than with 0 DT)
  
• Your attacking enemies should no longer act like you disappeared when you are knocked out.

Whack Effect (melee weapons):

• Knocked out victims only drop their weapon when health is below 40% (or less than 50 HP).

Gunshot Effect (ranged weapons):

• When victim is knocked out, equipped weapon is now removed to inventory instead of being dropped (with hot key still set).
  
• Radscorpions and Deathclaws will no longer be rendered unconscious when shot.

Blast Effect (explosives):

• Effect was removed from grenade launchers.
  
• You now drop your weapon when you are knocked out, but this happens just before getting back up, so your weapon will not be blasted away (it should be right beside you).
  
• Radscorpions and Deathclaws will still have fatigue reduced by an explosion, but much less than NPCs and other creatures.

My in-game Options Menu was further expanded:

• Menu Time Rate added: My default Menu Time Multiplier is 1.0 [time passes at the same rate as the rest of the game]. This works well for my default Timescale of 4, but you may want to use a slower rate with faster Timescales. Selectable rates are from 10% (90% slower than Timescale) to 100% (same as Timescale).
  
• Fatigue Display added (under Weapon Effects): briefly displays the player's fatigue amount when hit, or when less than 50%. Disabled by default.

I keep an eye out for ART news everyday. im specially eager for the hardcoe module. I havent been posting because NV wont start on my PC for more than a few days now and im about to do a fresh install. didnt think it fair to comment without having tested the newer versions yet but the new effects and menu time sound good. please know that your work with ART is greatly appreciated, Arwen.

I would also like to note that there are probably plenty of lurkers watching for updates but not playing for whatever reason. I can't be the only one waiting for the hardcoe module, at which time I plan to either remake all of my characters or try to re-level them with the consoles.

Speaking of which, does anyone know if this is even plausible, and if so could they tell me how I might go about doing so?

With the new version I'm sometimes getting up really fast when I'm knocked down because of gun fire. I'm barely done falling, and then I'm already getting up, and sometimes I can move again before the screen has even faded in again. It seems to happen when my weapon is being unequipped if I'm still falling.

There's also a delay with unequiping the weapon sometimes. So I'm up, ready to move, and the gun is taken out of my hands a second later.

If you are hit after your fatigue has been knocked down below 0, your fatigue is instantly restored, and you instantly revive. This seems to hard coded into the game, as I cannot seem to prevent it . . . my script is written to not even run if you are hit when your fatigue is 0 or less, but it doesn't seem to prevent this from happening. You can see the effect in the game . . . just shoot a character until they pass out, and then shoot them one more time . . . and they will jump up. My blackout effect is a timed imod event, so if my fatigue script is interrupted, it is still going to keep running, until it times out. I even tried to put a remove imod command in the script, but that didn't even help. This may partially be due to the fact that gunshot effect now longer knocks the actor unconscious (their fatigue is reduced to a negative value, but the unconscious state is no longer applied to them).

Fatigue in NV is a VERY difficult to use in a way that is at all consistent.

In Fallout 3, the player ALWAYS had 200 fatigue as a permanent actor value, and none of the 7 SPECIALS had any effect on it. And ALL the NPCs, Creatures, and Robots had 50 fatigue. There is no calculated fatigue.

In New Vegas, Fatigue is all over the place, because now it is truly a derived stat, where your Endurance affects your permanent amount, and there is now a Base fatigue assigned to every actor. So now there is a calculated fatigue value, which determines your PermAV Fatigue, along with something else that I haven't figured out yet. For example, the player has a Base fatigue of 200, and in the GECK, when you have 5 END, your calculated fatigue is 310 . . . but my 5 END character in the game has 390 Fatigue. I have no idea where the other 80 points are coming from.

And the Powder Gangers generally have 180 - 230 fatigue in the game. RadScorpions and Deathclaws only have 80 fatigue, and the geckos only have 60, But Coyotes have 210.

I'm really not sure why Obsidian made Fatigue so inconsistent and so complicated (probably for the same reason that they make it so difficult to use a slower Timescale . . . because the never really thought that anyone would want to alter/use either). The only thing that fatigue seems to be used for is the damage of 35 fatigue part of the Dummy Boxing Gloves effect.

Even though my scripts use a percentage of the actors' permanent fatigue for the amount that is damaged when hit (along with a bunch of other modifiers), it is nearly impossible to get consistent results. I spent a LOT of time trying to balance my effects out for a variety of NPCs and creatures. I doubt that I can improve this further, due to the shear variety in the amount of fatigue and HPs for all the actors.

But even with these quirks, I still feel that v.1.6 includes my best Weapon Effects so far . . . including my FO3 effects (which I now need to update with some of my newest NV changes). I realize that some users really hate my effects (which is way they are totally optional). But I feel that my Weapon Effects add a LOT more immersion and strategy to the default combat, so these effects are ALWAYS all enabled in my own game.

I like to make sure we're working together, Fellout and ART. Because I love them both. I've increased the effectiveness of all stock nightvision in Fellout 1.2. I'm not sure if ART does anything with the FOTN perk, the Cateye or the scope imagespace modifiers, if it does, then we've just become conflicting

I load Fellout NV into GECK alone and load it into the game at the very bottom, so any conflicts usually go under my radar.

I haven't touched any of those item, so we should still be fine. I use Fellout in my own game, so I'm going to do my best to make sure that we remain compatible. My Pip-Boy Light changes were balanced for Fellout's darker nights.

Oh yeah I still like the weapon effects a lot overall.

As for weapon balance, I hope the upcoming patch won't give you too much trouble, apparently it's changing some stuff.

Have you heard something specific?

From what is posted on the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas_patch_1.02 on the Fallout Wiki, I don't see anything that should cause any issues (but I may be missing something). The only conflicts seem to be with the energy ammo, which will be very easy to correct (Personally I like my approach better, as it is based on percentage of DT, instead on on static amounts).