Thanks for the feedback on my tentative rate changes.

My new rates are NOT going to be adjustable in my options menu . . . simply because they are going to be factored into everything that restores your Needs (like all the food and water giving items).

For now I'm just to fix the biggest problems of the default rates not being based Timescale, and the default rates being way to slow. This is likely the only Needs changes that will be in my Realism Core module . . . I'll be dealing with the over-abundance of food and water in my Hard-Core module and may include adjustments to individual ingestibles (food and water values) in my Med-Tec module.

I'm not basing my rate chanfes on how much you have to ingest to stay healthy, but on how long you can go without food, water, and sleep before you start receiving penalties. That's why I gave the hours until the first penalty level was reached for each Need. (when you accumulate 200 points in each Need). So you can go without water for 6.7 hours until you begin to get dehydrated; 12 hours without food before getting hungry, and 16 hours without sleep before getting tired.

You also have to remember that the default rates only apply if you are using the default Timescale of 30. For example, setting your Timescale to 15 doubles how much you have to ingest per game hour.

I think Arwen's rates of minor dehydration in 6.7 hours are fine. So i think the amount of thirst reduced by a bottle of water should be higher. At vanilla settings you would need 1.5 liter of water to get rid of minor dehydration. Thats a bit much.
0.5lt of water will get rid of minor dehydration in real life (which would equal 200 points). So in my opinion one bottle of water should be worth at least double (130 points) the amount. That would mean 0.75lt of water to get rid of minor dehydration.

edit- After some searching i think maybe it would be right since desert conditions really demand a lot of water. In the US army, heat condition RED (late morning in the desert), a person would need 1.9 liters of water per hour if he performs heavy work. That is because a person can sweat over 1.5lt per hour if he performs heavy work. Atleast thats what i found on http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/desert_operations/water-usage-in-desert-ope.shtml.

cept that you not in the army. ive been camping and hiking in the southwest when it was super hot and i was fine with a bottle of water every hour. maybe you couldnt keep it up for more than a few days but since you constantly stopping at towns and sleeping in novac or a safehouse or whatever i dont think the extreme would apply. it would also mean having to chug alot of bottles which gets repeitive and kind of boring. there was discussion about changing the default toilet hydration downwards but that means you would have to sit and click on a sink or something ten times or more. now that would really be boring.

@roxarhis. the only reason that the legion is a threat is because the NCR is completely and utterly useless with the possible exception of the rangers and even they might be over hyped. not up with my NCR lore so i could be wrong about the rangers. in fallout new vegas they were a pathetic fighting force and only succeeded by attrition, not superior tactics or training. had the legion gone up against the enclave or the BoS then they would have been swatted like flies.

also some melee weapons dont bother me to much like super-sledges, ballistic fists and thermal lances. they are based on SCIENCE! and can be sort of explained, but when knives and machetes are give the same or even higher damage than assault rifles that just drives me nuts from a physics perspective. for more kinetic energy is in a bullet than any normal melee weapon by far. if you want an effective melee weapon against armor you have to use things with points such as halberds, picks or spears or blunt weapons like maces and hammers. you can smack good armor all day long with slashing sword....only thrusting swords are useful. this stuff has been known by armies forever. the game doesnt have to be hyper realistic but shaving razors and knives have no place on a battlefield with energy weapons, super-sledges and assault rifles. its not a huge deal since i just change all those weapons to 1 or 2 damage and replace them with something else in levelled lists if they show up to often and handicap enemies.

I've been playing with 1.4.2, and I haven't seen any problems. I'm playing VH/H, so radiation poisoning and the occasional fight can be overkill, but you balanced the mod for normal, so no complaints here. I actually think the fights are just about perfect, though taking on Deathclaws requires planning and lots of ammo, even with the AM rifle.

To back up what Blackice said about water: some people in this thread are severely underestimating water needs. Arwen's upcoming settings are actually conservative for real life--but it sounds like a reasonable balance between realism and gameplay.

But... why not have it change with the player's timescale? Isn't that more realistic?

If not - could you please try not to break compatibility with mods that do that? I mean, sure - you might think it's "hardcoe", but it still generally tends to get annoying.

So if its not adjustable, then mods like IMCNNV will most certainly conflict with yours then ? Tough choice...
Hopefully combatibility mods will follow from either side

The way IMCN is written, it should overwrite any changes to the hardcoe rates made via the GECK. Changes made via NVSE functions may not be overwritten, but the rates will most likely be ignored, since IMCN tracks the values using its own variables and then forces the hardcoe needs levels by setting them directly via setav. The only real problem is some redundant code that's required to address a few issues New Vegas has with non-vanilla timescales, but I don't really think that would conflict either, if written properly. Hmmm. Now that I think about it, that might cause a problem, though IMCN includes a 100 frame delay before setting the timescale back to its stored value, so as long as ARTs delay is shorter than that, IMCN's timescale should be the one that ends up being used.

I think the stealth tweaks add a bit more fun to the game, but maybe they went a little above and beyond. I tried to infiltrate the NCRCR with a powder ganger outfit and the guards were making me out from the other side of the yard. I had to use 3 stealth boys to do what I needed to do in there. This makes disguises virtually useless except for sneaking up on random powder ganger camps. And those aren't even worth the effort.

This is sooo true! My Needs rates are more realistic . . . but they are not exactly based on real life needs . . . there's a fine line between realistic/hardcoe and playability . . . I'll admit that I often straddle the line, but I try not to cross it. My goal is to make the game both more realistic AND more fun. Not more tedious.


My script does exactly that. What you quoted was my reference to how the DEFAULT Need are NOT based on the timescale, so the rates increased when you use slower timescale. Did you miss my opening post on what I am adding in v.1.5? :



My Dynamic Stealth Quest, which I'm now using in my own game improves the way stealth works significantly . . . it will be included in v.1.5.

I haven't been able to play much yet but so far 1.4.2 seems pretty solid.

I don't understand this bit, if you are going to increase the rate at which needs generate why would there be a need for changes to consumables? Unless I am reading it wrong and you are going to increase the need generation rate and decrease the restored value via the foods.

I am asking cause my my concern is compatibility with IMCN, once you get into it you can never go back to the dullness of H20 and FOD.

I explained this in my very next paragraph:

I cannot make my Realism Tweaks compatible with every other mod, but it is modular . . . so you can select which module you release.
My Med-Tec module is my own Needs/Injury mod . . . so it is not going to be compatible with IMCN. But you get to pick which one you want to use.
My Realism core module will likely be able to be used with IMCN, although it may require a compatibility patch for full compatibility. As I've stated several times now, I'm not going to attempt to make any patches until after I release the rest of my Realism Tweaks modules.

Version 1.5 will likely be released within the next week, which will includes all my Realism Core's NVSE scripts . . . and my Realism Core will be complete. My Hard-Core module should be released about a week or so later. Next is my Encumbrance module, and finally my Med-Tec module. Then I'll consider making a couple of compatibility patches.

I feel like we might be having a miscommunication going on . I was not asking for a compatibility patch was just bit confused.
You are stating that you are going to adjust needs rates in your Realism Core module (the only one that is released so far) and adjustments to individual indigestible in your Med-Tec module that is being released only later on. It is clear that Med - Tec would be in conflict with anything dealing with injuring and healing (like food). What eludes me how would Realism Core be involved in all of that?

My Med-Tec module requires my Realism Core module. My Realism Core module is exactly what its name states: it is my core module, which most of my other modules require and expand.

My Timescale changes are part of my Realism Core module, as they are changed in my Options Menu, so this is where my Needs/Timescale script belongs. Using a slower Timescale with the default game's hardcoe mode active results in a problem (dying in your sleep), due to the fact that that Need Rates are based on real time. Currently my I have a temporary script that I added to prevent this, but my intent has ALWAYS been to use the Needs script that changes the Needs rates and that bases those new rates on the player's Timescale. I wrote back on the same week that NV was released and intend to add it to my Realism Core module, but then I discovered that it used a FOSE command, so I had to wait until NVSE was ready. My Sleep script just allows uses to use slower Timescales until I made my mod dependent on NVSE . . . which v.1.5 will. I'm adding several NVSE scripts in v.1.5 . . . one of which is my Needs Script.

I cannot keep both scrips active . . . that would cause compatibility problems between my modules, and I'm not about to do that. And I'm not going to remove my Timescale choices from my options menu.

I am not going to leave out any of the NVSE scripts that I wrote for my Realism Core, just to make my mod compatible with other mods. My own version of my Realism Tweaks (which I'm building and play testing) is WAY more complete than what I have released, a good chunk of my other modules are already done. My complete Realism Tweaks mod is a lot more very complex than just my Realism Core, and I have a design plan that I really have to stick to if I'm going to have any chance of releasing my other 3 modules in the next few weeks.

Thank you for clarifying that.

I give a great deal of respect and admiration to your work and your vision. From your last post I was under the impression that you were bit defensive of your work. I am sorry if my post offended you or made you feel uncomfortable in any way, I assure it it was not intended, my intent was to be thorough.

It is just that I get requests/demands every single day, telling me that I should change parts of my mod, because:
1.) my Realism Tweaks are not compatible with another mod ("Is this compatible with FOOK?" comes up about every other day).
2.) all enemies are not being killed by a single bullet to the head; and others saying that I need to make the enemies tougher,because they are too easy to kill.
3.) there's too much ammo and loot (even though I've repeated explained that my Hard-Core module will take care of that part).

Sorry, it wasn't what you posted. But it does get old trying to explain over and over that my Realism Core is just one part of my Realism Tweaks. And that I really do have an organized plan in how to go about making my entire mod . . . and that it is VERY important for me to stick to my plan or I'll soon be totally unorganized . . . and then my Tweaks will never be completed.

Progress on version 1.5:

Most of my NVSE scripts are now included, and after correcting a few minor issues all seem to now be working ok in my latest play testing (although more testing is still needed to verify all changes).
The new NVSE scripts that are now part of my Realism Core:

1.) Crippled Weapon Quest Script: prevents the player from using some weapons when one or both arms are crippled; decreases accuracy for pistols when right arm is crippled; reduces Melee damage when one or more arms are crippled; and disables VATS when an arm is crippled (prevents a VATS bug when arms are crippled, and prevents restricted weapons from being used in VATS).

2.) Damage Loot Quest Script: damages NPC's equipped weapon and body armor on death; does not damage weapons that are flagged 'dropped' or helmets (equipped slots does not work for helmets).

3.) Eye FX Quest Script: Adds a bit of immersion when wearing sunglasses and reading glasses. This is done by attaching unique visual Effects (my own ImageSpace Modifiers) to all the default eyewear.

4.) Imod Spell Quest Script: image modifiers are applied with loss of AGL and PER (mainly due to weapon effect penalties)

5.) Jump Quest Script: Jump height and distance is now based on your Agility, how encumbered you are, and if a leg is crippled. (This will likely end up being moved to my Encumbrance module.)

6.) Needs Quest Script: alters Needs rates to be a bit more realistic and the rates automatically adjust based on the player's Timescale.

7.) Stealth Quest Script: Uses separate stealth values for interiors vs. exteriors, time of day now dynamically affects your ability to avoid detection (finally makes it just as hard for the NPCs to see you in the dark), and weather conditions now dynamically affects your ability to avoid detection (you will be a bit harder to spot when it is cloudy, and even harder to spot when it is raining or snowing, and very hard to spot on a rainy/snowy night). Your PipBoy Light will now make you very visible; and other player actions (such as jumping and opening doors) will now alert your enemies.

I still have to add my three Weapon Effect scripts: Whack (melee weapons); Blast (explosives); and Gunshot (ranged weapons)

My in-game Options Menu has been expanded and now allows you to toggle on or off each of my Weapon Effects; my Crippled Weapon Penalties, and both of my Visual FXs (Eye FX and Imod penalties). Plus you can now change the global Threshold Reduction percentage (from 0 to 30%, in 5% increments).

Unfortunately (for you guys) I'm going to be away from home for the Thanksgiving holiday, so version 1.5 is on hold until I get back. My best guess is that I may be able to release this early next week.

I truly can't wait for this. It seems that modding has become an addiction to you, and I'm quite worried. It's like the Geck is a startup program you're on it so much...What if you go through withdrawals over break?

Quick, we must get her a laptop!

Happy Thanksgiving in advance and don't worry about ART updates, 1.4.2 will last us as long as it needs to. :fallout:

Thanks for the nice holiday wishes. I have a couple of direct grandparent lines that came over on the Mayflower . . . and one of my great grandmothers was Native American . . . so this is like a personal family holiday for me.

I have a nice new laptop, and it is going along with me . . . but it doesn't have the GECK installed on it . . . and it is going to stay that way.
But I'll be in touch when I'm away.

Mooguy, you always make me laugh. The only reason that I was able to get so much done today is that I have been working on these scrips for months . . . as 90% of the code in these scripts are exactly the same as what I wrote for my FO3 Tweaks. It's the other 10% that gets a bit tricky, as there are still not may guidelines for the differences between FO3 and NV. And it really doesn't help that Obsidian didn't clean up things better, but just left in a lot of FO3 game settings, even though they no longer function in NV.

I know you arent to keen on giving the option of turning certain things off, but do you think you could maybe include a toggle for the needs rate as well ? For compatibility′s sake ?

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1141220-screenshot-evidence-that-overchargemaxcharge-means-nothing-to-dt/page__pid__16681335__st__0&#entry16681335

One option would be to move the timescale changes into the med-tec module, since the two are now so tightly interdependent.

Well, it seems like you were right after all a few threads back concerning the devs making changes to Energy Weapons in a patch. Josh Sawyer confirmed in http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1141220-screenshot-evidence-that-overchargemaxcharge-means-nothing-to-dt/page__view__findpost__p__16708387 that he plans on implementing a built-in DT bypass for all energy weapon ammo (except for flamer fuel) and he has also made individual tweaks here and there to some of the energy weapons in the next patch.

So, I'm sort of wondering how you're going to go about with Energy Weapons now, seeing as this fix will be implemented in the next patch. Will you keep your current changes the way they are so that they overwrite the new changes, or will you take the changes into consideration and perhaps build off of them to enhance them even more?