Balance is only objective if you are discussing mass distribution in a gravity well. For every other use, it is metaphorical. Subjective. There is an unspoken (like) in front of the balance. It is like balance. You are referring to conceptual weight, that doesn't exist except metaphorically.

When speaking of character balance and skill balance, there is no objectivity...no truth. It's all subjective opinion. Understand when you say "not balanced" it is only your opinion. Same with saying it is "balanced". The weight you are giving to something is metaphorical, and is only your opinion. Advocating change based on your idea of "balance" means your are changing things to suit yourself at the expence, and to the detriment, of all who disagree with you. It is selfish.


Even equations are only "balanced" metaphorically. Numbers have no weight. What you have done is equalized and then equivocated mathmatical statements, and then used the word "balance" to refer to that equalization metaphorically. The statements are equal like if they were 2 or more items balanced to the same weight distribution across a space in a gravity well. But it is just easier to say "they are balanced" without saying all of that, using metaphor. Same with checkbooks and accounts. There is no weight. It is a metaphor.

Even 2+4=6-4=2 is subjective when you get right down to it. 2 what plus 4 what? Equals 6 of what? Things. But "thing" is also a subjective abtract. What things "i don't know...things!". That's why in phsyics and chemistry, the scientists are extremely specific as to what those numbers are actually representing, in order to make the statments objective.

Ok, now I'm rambling. But I am just sick of people advocating change of features I like, for their own pleasure and trying to represent it as "truth" by using the word "balance".

Well said, Though you will scare the 12 year old whiners away with your vocabulair and a post of more then 5 small sentences.

Wow, that was great. and you're totally right.

Metaphorically speaking, Smithing isn't balanced.

It's used to represent a meaning of equal weight in the scale. It may be methaphorical & abstract, but it is not used to represent a state of being equal, but a state of being similar.

There does, however, come a point where subjective balances issues plant their metaphorical feet well and truly in the land of the design flaw, an idea much more amenable to 'approaching objectivity due to overwhelming consensus, and a smattering of common sense'.
[Yes, common sense is a subjective idea too, but people usually argue against it just because they want to argue, or are suffering from this design flaw : 'Always right, regardless of whether I am stating fact or opinion/bias/crap from my upbringing'.]

Thats the interesting thing about language, interpretration. it does not matter what the definition really is, it only matters what people belive it to be. take for instance "Bless You" when you sneeze... It originally was meant to keep your spirit well from a religious standpoint, because our breath was thought to be our essence at the time. Nowadays its a common courtesy

The OP just doesn't like a balanced game.

The what doesn't matter and has nothing to do with whether the math is or isn't subjective. The number two plus the number four equals the number six; it doesn't matter if you pretend the numbers represent cars, apples, atoms, or whatever. The numbers are still the same and the result is still objective. Chemists and Physisists don't heavily lable their works so that it's "objective" rather than "subjective" (that makes no sense), it's so people reading their work have any idea what they're even talking about.


As for the rest of your argument, what's particularly silly is your claim that requesting changes be done on your behalf is selfish. No, it's called making a request. Of course it's not objective truth, almost no one claims otherwise. Making blanket statements like this is pointless; if someone's requesting a change you don't agree with then reply to their actual argument instead of hiding behind the "well that's just your opinion!" wall that people love to bring out whenever they start feeling insecure about their own opinions.


I think the only part I actually agree with is that balance isn't what people think it is. People love to point at how spells typically don't deal as much damage as weapons, but that doesn't necessarily make them unbalanced.

Custom made spells/enchantments have been a hugely "imbalanced" feature since as long as I've been playing Elder Scrolls. At this point, I really don't see what the problem is. Crafting/enchanting/whatever can easily give you ridiculously powerful equipment if you push the feature to its limits. If you're into that sort of thing then have at it, if you're not then you'll need to practice some restraint or even just ignore that part of this game (which is what I've been doing since Morrowind. I don't even touch alchemy or spell crafting because I know I could easily break the game for me).

It's why I wish spell making would be brought back. I don't use it personally because I'm fine with what's already in the game, but lots of people like having that freedom.

Ofcourse none of this actaully matters if you realize that everything anyone says on an internet forum is only an opinion.

If someone says that something is a fact then it is only their opinion that it is a fact.

All this philosophical discussion about the true meaning of words or what-not is moot once you realize this.

Really. This is probably the most elequant "but that's just your opinion!" post I've seen, but that's still all it is. Seems like a waste to me

Balance is needed if you can't control it like Fallout 3's leveling post Broken Steel. There is no way that you can avoid your character getting full skill points unless you set the INT at 5, don't pick Comprehension/Educated and don't read any skill books. Skyrim's balance issues aren't really issues because you can control how far you want to go, nobody is forcing anyone to use Smithing, Alchemy, Enchanting, wearing the best Armor, etc.

The term "truth" is often misused by those who don't recognize how subjective the world is, and differences in individual experience. (Of course many who focus on individual experience miss the importance of communal perspective.) However while we need to recognize that the world is a messy and inexact place that doesn't mean we can't use subjective terms like "balance" when discussing gameplay features. It's also cumbersome to preface every point you make with, "in my opinion," or "I feel that," or similar statements. What people offer are personal opinions, if someone feels that a system is unbalanced it is understood that this is their opinion. If they seem to feel that they are the universal arbitrator on such things this is an issue with them, not the topic at hand.

But I'm at a loss to see why this is a thread in the Skyrim forums. As a response to a thread it makes sense, although like far too philosophical to be of much use. Rather than taking this to cosmic levels why not simply tell someone, "you're welcome to you opinion but please don't portray it as fact, I hold a differing opinion." Of course if you aren't going to then follow with you differing opinion there's little reason to jump in and chastise them like that.