[RELz] BFG's Enhanced Armory Realism (BEAR) : IV - Oblivion

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:29 am

Yes as it says nothing is leveled.
I thought that this armor degradation would take a bit longer though; not falling off so fast like I previously mentioned with NPC vs NPC.
Now I notice it on myself with one piece of light armor at level 2 vs a few boars then later an orc that drove me out of Fort Homestead (yay residents / guard at Pell's Gate inn).

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:19 pm

Yes, I suspect TIE is responsible for the quick loss of armor.

The fact that TIE is unleveled means that even at level 2, the difference in quality of available weapons and armor could mean the armor is getting destroyed very quickly.
Still, to be certain, you could try turning TIE off (temporarily) and see if the armor is still lost so quickly. I would like to make sure that you're not experiencing a bug in BEAR.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:33 am

Well when I looked at the orc's corpse all he had was normal weapons.
Right now I really haven't been wearing any armor, only clothing, so haven't been able to see it much on myself often.
I really noticed it when npcs were fighting each other, then looking at the drops to only see normal iron/steel.
My keyboard is messed up right now on the left shift and a little of the a key so playing will have to be altered and slowed til I get a new one.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:26 am

Has anyone else seen what ITPaladin is reporting (armor falling off too quickly)? I have a little free time today so I'll take another look at this mod if anyone has.

Other than this report, I am not aware of any open issues.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:51 pm

Has anyone else seen what ITPaladin is reporting (armor falling off too quickly)? I have a little free time today so I'll take another look at this mod if anyone has.

Other than this report, I am not aware of any open issues.

I'm not getting this problem in my game, from this mod anyway. I used to play with TIE Integration Revised along with FCOM with Durability and Damage and TIE's spawns really tear apart armor and health, even to higher-class light armor. Even without TIE, the FCOM spawns are powerful enough that when my thief clears a three level bandit cave, by the time I get to the end boss Savoir's Hide has been shredded to zero health, and this is for a stealth character. Some funny stuff happens though; when my helmet breaks it gets replaced by my Hood of Asphyxiation (from Better Cities). It's a zero weight hood enchanted with Damage Health that is definitely not meant to be purposefully worn.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:02 pm

I'm not getting this problem in my game, from this mod anyway. I used to play with TIE Integration Revised along with FCOM with Durability and Damage and TIE's spawns really tear apart armor and health, even to higher-class light armor. Even without TIE, the FCOM spawns are powerful enough that when my thief clears a three level bandit cave, by the time I get to the end boss Savoir's Hide has been shredded to zero health, and this is for a stealth character. Some funny stuff happens though; when my helmet breaks it gets replaced by my Hood of Asphyxiation (from Better Cities). It's a zero weight hood enchanted with Damage Health that is definitely not meant to be purposefully worn.

Heh, that's definitely a problem.

I could look into excluding clothing that has negative enchantments (Damage Health, etc.). But I'm thinking the best solution is to wait for a future version - the next major upgrade will include the option for the player to choose which clothing/weapons to equip when their current equipment breaks.
Thanks for the report...and let me know if you come across anything else!

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:53 am

Does anyone have issues to report with this mod?
If not, for the next work I plan to rewrite the entire mod from scratch to take advantage of OBSE 19 Beta 4's superior functions. That should translate into a faster mod, and fewer problems with situations where the same armor exists more than once in a cell. OBSE 19 will also allow me to do a better job with the "pick what clothing and weapons the player equips" addition that is planned.

That said, if anyone is experiencing problems with the current build, please let me know and I'll fix 'em first.

Edit: I'd also appreciate any other suggestions or feedback, even why you chose to uninstall it if you did so.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:16 am

OBSE 19 seems to be getting better and better. I'm still using 18 until the stable final version is released though, so I'm holding off any more major stress tests of this mod until then since additional errors or bugs that show up might already be fixed.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:27 am

I had a cat tear off my leather cuirass in under 10 seconds. It is from Cats and Rats mod.
I was practicing archery at the Chorrol range with a training mod, and a cat wandered under my shots and freaked out.
I had to put it down but before I could it took my armor from 90s to 0 in several seconds.
My slider is at about 35% difficulty.
This is getting too annoying. I even lost my Helmet of the Mind while robbing stores. It was down to single digits but I can't even find it on the floor in the store.
I think you should include something in the ini that can adjust the difficulty/rate of degradation, especially with these other mods that may make things come off in seconds
like this. A housecat shouldn't be able to do that.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:19 am

I had a cat tear off my leather cuirass in under 10 seconds. It is from Cats and Rats mod.
I was practicing archery at the Chorrol range with a training mod, and a cat wandered under my shots and freaked out.
I had to put it down but before I could it took my armor from 90s to 0 in several seconds.
My slider is at about 35% difficulty.
This is getting too annoying. I even lost my Helmet of the Mind while robbing stores. It was down to single digits but I can't even find it on the floor in the store.
I think you should include something in the ini that can adjust the difficulty/rate of degradation, especially with these other mods that may make things come off in seconds
like this. A housecat shouldn't be able to do that.

Wow, a CAT did that? Must have been one heckuva cat!
In all seriousness though, wouldn't it make more sense for the difficulty on the other mods to be dialed down, than on this one? It's the other mods such as TIE that are causing your armor to be shredded so fast. I suppose I could introduce a random chance for broken armor to fall off instead of it always doing so, but otherwise I don't think there's much I could do--I'd rather not make changes to the rate at which armor degrades because that would introduce conflicts with other mods.

Is it possible to change TIE's difficulty settings? Or, further dialing down Oblivion's main difficulty setting would help.
The other thing you could always do, of course, is turn off armor dropping in this mod's INI file.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:26 pm

Tie has no settings; just an esp and text file.
I thought the whole purpose of your mod was the dropping off.

If I use the gameplay slider it affects everything making it too easy
in some cases, although even at 30% it seems armor is shredded too much, too fast for simple creatures.
I just wish I could find where that helm dropped. I could at least get some cash off of it. Maybe it went through a wall. I don't have
disintegrate turned on.
Basically I was expecting armor to last longer than this vs normal combat (no magic, etc).
I may have to turn it off at low levels as it costs too much to get new armor and / or repair it at this rate with the possible interactions
with other mods.

Spoiler

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» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:00 am

Tie has no settings; just an esp and text file.
I thought the whole purpose of your mod was the dropping off.

BEAR doesn't affect damage output/armor health or anything, does it? I thought it just handled weakening enchantments and auto-unequip-when-zero-health.

Try playing without BEAR and see if TIE critters are still mauling your vanilla armor. I suspect they will be. It just may not be so obvious without the bits flying off your body...

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:57 pm

Tie has no settings; just an esp and text file.
I thought the whole purpose of your mod was the dropping off.

If I use the gameplay slider it affects everything making it too easy
in some cases, although even at 30% it seems armor is shredded too much, too fast for simple creatures.
I just wish I could find where that helm dropped. I could at least get some cash off of it. Maybe it went through a wall. I don't have
disintegrate turned on.
Basically I was expecting armor to last longer than this vs normal combat (no magic, etc).
I may have to turn it off at low levels as it costs too much to get new armor and / or repair it at this rate with the possible interactions
with other mods.

Heh, you're not the first to think the reason for this mod is the armor dropping off! That's turned out to be a much more popular feature than I thought it would. (Maybe because, for the moment, it's the only mod I'm aware of that offers that.) But in truth the armor/weapon dropping was a late addition to the mod; the enchantment scaling, and the automatic equipping of a new weapon when your current one breaks/is disarmed, was the reason I built BEAR. It just never made sense to me that a Cuirass that was about to break had just as strong an enchantment as when it was brand new.

From your description, I would suggest that you just turn the Armor Dropping off for the time being. TIE is ripping through your armor way too quickly--the armor dropping is actually LESS immersive in your game. With Armor Dropping off, the armor is unequipped to inventory instead. (Or you can turn both Dropping and Unequipping off if you want.)

I can't help you much with that helmet I'm afraid! All I can say is that, as you know Oblivion's collision detection can be somewhat buggy inside buildings. When an item falls through a floor or wall, Oblivion is supposed to put it back at the entrance to the cell, but it doesn't always for reasons unbeknownst to me. So I'd check around each door as well in the area where it dropped. And if you can't find it, I could at least tell you how to add its worth in gold to your character.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:30 am

BEAR doesn't affect damage output/armor health or anything, does it? I thought it just handled weakening enchantments and auto-unequip-when-zero-health.

Try playing without BEAR and see if TIE critters are still mauling your vanilla armor. I suspect they will be. It just may not be so obvious without the bits flying off your body...

Yep, you're right Tekuromoto, BEAR doesn't affect damage calculations in any way. Really, that's intentional--I don't want it to conflict with mods that do.
(The one time BEAR does affect armor health is when the armor drops off after breaking...but that's because Oblivion resets armor health to 100 when it's dropped. So the mod has to set its health to 0 again.)

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:52 am

The first time I played with this mod I had one of those full body black leather outfits I found on a dead dark elf (near a merchant out in wilds so dumb dark elf rogue).

I was being ripped apart by a goblin. He ripped it off in a few seconds and I ran away naked (Robert's) to the nearest guard with my sword magically attached to my hip (is there a sheath/belt cosmetic mod out there?).

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:58 am

Wow, I really let this thread get buried!

My work on the Amber and Madness weapon expansion mod is wrapping up - we're hoping to release the first version of that mod in about 2 weeks. As such I've started thinking about further changes/improvements I can make to this one.

Anyone have suggestions or feedback? ITPaladin, are you still having problems with armor falling off too quickly while using TIE?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:41 am

Wow, I really let this thread get buried!

My work on the Amber and Madness weapon expansion mod is wrapping up - we're hoping to release the first version of that mod in about 2 weeks. As such I've started thinking about further changes/improvements I can make to this one.

Anyone have suggestions or feedback? ITPaladin, are you still having problems with armor falling off too quickly while using TIE?

I haven't been using it much, or playing much to really have been using it anyway. I did at one point set the ini to not have it fall off anymore.
No more losing precious, rare, TIE given random loot at level 4 that I found in an unlocked chest in the IC sewers.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:34 am

From my ConScribe log:

Operator == failed to evaluate to a valid result    File: BFG's Enhanced Armory.esp Offset: 0x0001 Command: Error in script dd009762An expression failed to evaluate to a valid result    File: BFG's Enhanced Armory.esp Offset: 0x0001 Command:

Using 1.751 - all the character did was enter a room with a follower. No combat.

Twice now and both times coincided with the game freezing.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:53 am

From my ConScribe log:

Operator == failed to evaluate to a valid result    File: BFG's Enhanced Armory.esp Offset: 0x0001 Command: Error in script dd009762An expression failed to evaluate to a valid result    File: BFG's Enhanced Armory.esp Offset: 0x0001 Command:

Using 1.751 - all the character did was enter a room with a follower. No combat.

Twice now and both times coincided with the game freezing.

Hmm...not sure what would be causing that error, I haven't seen it in 1.751. The script in question is the one responsible for weapon charge scaling. Unfortunately, the error log doesn't give much detail.
Could you let me know the following info:
--Which version of OBSE you are using
--Which room you entered, and any other NPCs that might be in that room
--Which weapons you, the follower, and any NPCs in that room have equipped (to debug, you can temporarily turn off weapon charge scaling in the INI...that should prevent the freeze)

Thanks.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:09 am

OBSE 19
Two areas - one under the dwarf house in Kragenir death quest the other traveling north of Blankenmarsh(march).
Both instances with the NPC snow white from Kragenir - which is being buggy and reported in Kragenir thread.

Weapon equipped is a sword called lightning from Francesco (in an FCOM load order).

After I get rid of show white I will reactivate and look for more patterns.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:18 am

OBSE 19
Two areas - one under the dwarf house in Kragenir death quest the other traveling north of Blankenmarsh(march).
Both instances with the NPC snow white from Kragenir - which is being buggy and reported in Kragenir thread.

Weapon equipped is a sword called lightning from Francesco (in an FCOM load order).

After I get rid of show white I will reactivate and look for more patterns.

Thanks! Yes, I'm guessing it has something to do with the problems on the snow white dagger. That said, if you find it no longer crashes after getting rid of snow white, and so confirm that is the issue, I'll see if I can add some "error trapping" to BEAR so that it can avoid the crash in the future.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:52 am

No even after getting rid of Snow White the issue appeared a few times again. And it is the last error I see in the ConScribe log prior to game crash.

I'm wondering if it has to do with how weapons are swapped out using Nice One's Enhanced Hotkeys. I'll watch that closer.

[edit] Eureka!! That is exactly it.

Sorry not happy it has an issue just that the reason for a conflict so rarely does it fall so perfectly in my lap.

Every time I swap a weapon with Enhanced Hotkeys I get that exact script error.

Have you tested this with other hotkey mods?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:27 am

Hmm...interesting. I have tested with other hotkey mods and haven't had any issues. I'll take a look at how that mod works and get back to you.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:14 am

Hmm...interesting. I have tested with other hotkey mods and haven't had any issues. I'll take a look at how that mod works and get back to you.

Enhanced Hotkeys equip items in a different way than any other hotkey mod does. It does it by using "EquipItem2NS", which was new in OBSEv18. There's nothing special about this one AFAIK, except that it does exactly what I need: makes the OnEquip block of the equiped item being run, and prevents equip messages.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:29 pm

Well, at least in a quick readthrough of the relevant scripts, I haven't been able to determine what is causing the error.

Here is the script from Enhanced Armory Realism. The purpose of this script is to scan the player and nearby NPCs/creatures for equipped enchanted weapons, index those weapons if that has not been done yet, and then adjust the magic charges required by the enchanted weapon.

Spoiler

scriptName BFGEnchantedWeaponScaleshort dooncefloat tempafloat tempbfloat fQuestDelayTimefloat Percentageref Actref proberef probetempref probeenchstring_var probeenchFIDarray_var origwpndataarray_var ObjLoadedbegin GameModeif GetGameLoaded	set fQuestDelayTime to BFGMaster.ini_wpnupdate	if doonce == 0		let BFGMaster.wpnindex := ar_construct Array		let BFGMaster.wpntotal := 0		let origwpndata := ar_construct stringmap		let doonce := 1		endif	endifif (Player.GetDead + IsPCSleeping + Player.GetSleeping + Player.GetSitting) > 0		;don't process if player is dead or sleeping.  Prevents reequip at this time	Return	endiflet ObjLoaded := ar_construct StringMapSet Act to PlayerWhile Act	set probe to Act.GetEquippedObject 16	if (IsWeapon probe) > 0		let probeench := GetEnchantment probe		let probeenchFID := GetFormIDString probeench		if probeench && eval (ar_HasKey ObjLoaded probeenchFID) == 0			;don't need to proceed if unenchanted, of if this ObjectID's already been adjusted			let Percentage := (Act.GetEquippedCurrentHealth 16) / ((GetObjectHealth probe) + 0.00001)			if eval (ar_HasKey origwpndata $probe+$0) == 0		;if the item hasn't been initialized yet, do the following				let BFGMaster.wpnindex[BFGMaster.wpntotal] := probe		;used to track which weapons have been changed, if needs undone				let BFGMaster.wpntotal := BFGMaster.wpntotal + 1				;used to track which weapons have been changed, if needs undone				let origwpndata[$probe+$0] := 1				let origwpndata[$probe+$1] := GetFullGoldValue probe				let origwpndata[$probe+$2] := GetEnchantmentCost probeench				let origwpndata[$probe+$3] := IsMagicItemAutoCalc probeench				let origwpndata[$probe+$4] := probeench				SetMagicItemAutoCalc 0 probeench		;disables autocalc on weapon				let tempb := 0				While tempb < BFGMaster.wpntotal - 1							;check to see if this enchantment has already been indexed, if so then overwrite the previous value					let probetemp := BFGMaster.wpnindex[tempb]					if eval (origwpndata[$probetemp+$4] == probeench)		;we have a match!						let origwpndata[$probe+$2] := origwpndata[$probetemp+$2]						Break						endif					let tempb := tempb + 1					loop				endif			let tempb := origwpndata[$probe+$2] / (Percentage * (BFGMaster.ini_chargestrength / 100) + (1 - (BFGMaster.ini_chargestrength / 100)) + 0.0000001) + 0.50001			SetEnchantmentCost tempb probeench			let tempb := origwpndata[$probe+$1] - (GetFullGoldValue probe)			if eval ((tempb + (GetGoldValue probe)) > 1 || origwpndata[$probe+$1] <= 0)				ModGoldValue tempb probe				else				SetGoldValue 1 probe				endif			let ObjLoaded[probeenchFID] := 1				;marks that this ObjectID has already been used at least once in the cycle.			endif		endif	if BFGMaster.ini_wpnaffectNPCs > 0		if Act == Player			Set Act to GetFirstRef 69 2			else			Set Act to GetNextRef			endif		While Act			if Act.GetDead + Act.GetDisabled > 0				set Act to GetNextRef				else				Break				endif			loop		else		Break		endif	loopend

TheNiceOne, do you have any initial thoughts? I'm wondering if the conflict is actually with a different script in BEAR. BEAR also uses the EquipItem2NS command, though in a different script.