I am really started to seriously dislike Bioware. The main thing that annoys me is their obsession with romance. They're actually leaving certain races out of The Old Republic because they didn't fit with romance. Another thing that makes me cringe is seeing posts like: What can the Elder Scrolls learn from Mass Effect? The day TES becomes Mass Effect is the day I stop playing. I'm sorry, but Bioware is one developer that I will never support.

Now that my little rant is over, I'd like to say sorry. It's just with all the "Mass Effect totally RockZ' Mass Effect is the best thing ever!!!!" stuff, I need to know there are still people that just don't get what's so special about it like me.

I like the Mass Effect series, but Bioware is losing my respect lately, for various reasons.

I love Bioware actually. Their focus has always been character interaction, so it's understandable that they might need to do something like that in order to support it. The romance storylines are a great way to dig deeper into the backstory of characters, which are often just as interesting as the main storyline (it's not all just "chat up character, say something nice, do something naughty"). Sure, it isn't necessarily for everyone. I can understand not liking all the talking and stuff like that, but to me that's what makes the games more interesting and fleshes out the story in a meaningful way.

I'm not as big Bioware fan I used to be, for various reasons. They certainly been going downwards in the past few years, but despite that I look forward to Mass Effect 3 a great deal

Yeah, it definitely isn't for me. And I'm not one to troll on other people's favorite games. The constant praising just got to me. Seeing a "What We Want in Battlefront 3" article with the first comment being "Bioware must make it" is what pushed me over the edge. Come to think of it, I probably shouldn't have posted this.

Nothing wrong with having an opinion as long as you have a good reason for it.

You say that like being a fan of it is as confusing as being a fan of Call of Duty or Halo or whatever the cool kids are hating on these days. The fact is that your opinion on the series isn't any more correct than the people you're targeting here. Anyway, I have a number of reasons for not respecting Bioware anymore, but if you're trying to say Mass Effect is bad because it focuses on too much romance, then you obviously haven't played it, or at least the first one. The romance in the first Mass Effect is nothing but mild flirting and very mild sixual tension until a single, solitary instance of six before a battle that could have had a very good chance of being their last. Yes, Bioware focused more on romance in DA, DA2 and ME2, but you'll have to come up with a better reason than that if you're going to act so confused about how anyone could like the series.

I wasn't so much saying I didn't understand how anybody could like it so much as I was saying I didn't get how it could explode onto the top of everybody's favorite game list. I mean we have masterful games this generation that tell amazing stories like: Bioshock, The Elder Scrolls, or Red Dead Redemption. Basically, I'm not saying :how can you people like that dumb game", it's more as I'm wondering how it exploded past all these other amazing games. It's a matter of not understanding more than a matter of hating.

Edit: Basically have you ever had something you disliked constantly praised by everybody around you? It's only a matter of time before you snap right? That's basically why this post is here.

I loved Bioware games until the abomination that was DA2. I was massively disappointed with that. I'm not sure if it was EA's influence, but the game was rushed and a step back from everything good the DA:O had achieved.

The gameplay in TES is great and all but... amazing story? :unsure:


No. If you dislike it why would you care that people like it?

It's just a matter of what people like. I like all of the games you listed, plus Bioware's stuff.

It's pretty undeniable that the storytellers at Bioware are amazing. Some people just don't like the way the story is told through things like character interaction, it's simple as that. You pretty much have to like a lot of dialogue to like Bioware's games. That means a lot of breaks in the action, which some people might not like.

Why?! Why did you have to mention Battlefront 3?! I miss Pandemic Studios. :sadvaultboy:

BioWare were responsible for a handful of the few Western RPGs I've ever really liked, but Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age II were fairly disappointing. I can overlook Mass Effect becoming more action oriented because the RPG elements were somewhat light to begin with, but the story in ME2 was just not to my liking. It wasn't the direction I expected them to take the series and even in its own right it seemed to prioritize flashy action scenes over proper pacing and good storytelling. It was "epic" but it wasn't good IMO.

I've also played TOR beta and it honestly felt too much like World of Warcraft. I can't really fault them for that, as just about every modern MMO is reminiscent of WoW, but I still wasn't happy with it. I knew going into it that I'd be disappointed though, as it would never stack up to pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxies and, try as I might, I couldn't help compare the two. However, the storylines for each class were pretty cool. I like the idea of an MMO having more to its story and I think BioWare really hit the nail on the head in TOR.

Looking forward, I'll be getting Mass Effect 3 but I'm nowhere near as excited for a sequel as I was before ME2 came out. I'm sure it'll be a good game, but BioWare just doesn't seem to have the touch they used to. I can see myself regarding Mass Effect as a standalone game, in the way that some folks pretend there was no Star Wars Prequel Trilogy.

But it didn't "explode past" all those games, it joined those games as a common favorite. When people give their Top 5 and Top 10 games of the generation when asked, they aren't erasing their memories of other favorite games that didn't make it onto those lists. Just because someone lists Mass Effect instead of RDR on a Top 5 list doesn't mean they stopped liking RDR as much after Mass Effect made the list. :shrug:



Maybe he meant lore? Bioshock, TES and Mass Effect all have plenty of good lore (I haven't played RDR due to being on a PC so I can't comment on that).

I can. RDR is probably one of the best Western stories around, including the old black and white stuff.

I happen to like the mass effect games and DA: Origins was a great game, DA: 2 svcked hard though. It's not so much Bioware that I have a problem with so much as EA, who are the ones that appear to be steering Bioware in a certain direction that I am sure they wouldn't be going in if the were left alone.

It seems to now be about getting games out as fast as possible to make as much money rather than making a game to be as good as it can be. DA: 2 is a perfect examlpe of this, that game needed at least 18 months more development time, because of that we got a half finished product that quite honestly I would be embarrassed with.

Bioware do you have no shame? As for EA I know you have no soul.

Blame their fans. The majority of their fanbase asks for romance and they serve it.

Sorry Bioware stories went downhill when James Ohlen went to TOR project. The only good romances are those in BG 2, loving someone doesn't always bring you happy endings. Everything after that are Hollywood six.

Good story but no lore.


Probably because a good majority of their fanbase consists of geeks that have barely experienced it.

Dragon Age: Awakening and Dragon Age 2 were total disappointments and I lost my faith in that particular series then. But I have still hope for Mass Effect and after Fallout it's my favorite RPG series. But I can't judge the entire Bioware since for one I have never played KOTOR games (because I don't like Star Wars at all).

Still I consider them one of the best RPG developers of our time.

After the turd that was Dragon Age 2, I don't know if I even want ME3. Part of me would rather let the tale go untold. So glad I didn't buy it.

I miss them too man. They had a pretty good community when they were still around.
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I was a big fan of KOTOR, but after that I just kind of gave up. I played DA:O and thought it was okay, but I didn't think it was as great as people made it out to be.

I used to love their games, having played them since Baldur's Gate, but I inherently have no interest in Mass Effect because it really just seems like a third-person shooter (can only get 2, currently, on my PS3, anyway, and I don't have a good feeling about just jumping into a story arc through the second) and while I liked Dragon Age: Origins, I've only heard bad things about Dragon Age II... things that I can say I don't very much care for. As for The Old Republic, I really don't care for MMOs and can't believe they ditched KotOR III for one. So, I'm highly disappointed in BioWare and I'm left wondering what happened to the game company that made Baldur's Gate, KotOR, and even Dragon Age: Origins... but mostly the first two.

Ever since Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2, I'll steer away from anything they touch.

Dragon Age made me hopeful for the future for Bioware. Though they also started churning out DLC with very bad value for what you were paying for. The actual expansion Awakening didn't feel nearly as extensive as Throne of Bhaal did for BG2. And then came Dragon Age 2 of course. After that, I'm pretty much done with Bioware and probably won't buy any future products from them.