As anyone who's played more than 2 minutes of New Vegas will have noticed, ammo has changed from Fo3, and all for the better as far as I can tell. Ammo types have been introduced, as well as ammo weight (in hardcoe), crafting etc.

Briefely, for anyone new to modding the fallouts, what CALIBR (http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?showtopic=965300) did for Fo3 was to add new ammunition entries for different calibres that did not already exist. Many modders wanted to add weapons in standard real-world calibres like 9x19mm (many pistols) or 7.62x39mm (the classic AK47). However, since there is no practical way for mods to communicate what ammunition they are using, all mods have to also add the calibres they need. This leads to duplicate ammunition for players, if s/he used two 9mm pistol mods, s/he would also have two different and incompatible 9mm ammunition types in-game.
CALIBR was developed to solve this issue. It was, and is, a master plugin that any mod author can load when creating mods. By using the existing calibres, no new types need to be created, and compatibility with other mods is ensured. CALIBR has been continually updated as requests from modders come in, and currently has 64 entries, covering probably 99% of all firearms in the world.
Mod users have to download CALIBR in addition to the mod, but once that's done there are no more problems with overlaps. ~92 thousand downloads (plus another few hundred thousand from being bundled with FWE etc) proves that this isn't an insurmountable obstacle.

One importand thing to note here is that CALIBR does not add the ammunition in the game. The most common misconception about CALIBR is that it will flood vendors with useless trash, but this is not the case. Mod authors are responsible for making the ammunition they use available themselves. If CALIBR is loaded by itself, no changes will occur in the game and no conflicts will be created with unrelated mods.

Back to the issue at hand: There have been many changes, but the core problem of overlap still remains in New Vegas. I therefore intend to revive CALIBR for New Vegas, although the form it takes may be slightly different.

• Base ammunition types are created as Form Lists, (CALIBRxList762x39mm)
  
• By default, 3 ammo variants will be created by me, default, armor piercing and hollow point, although this may vary some depending on calibre. Names may also vary depending on real-world names. (CALIBRx762x39mm, CALIBRx762x39mmJHP, CALIBRx762x39mmFMJ)
  New variant types can be added by third-party modders without affecting compatibility.
  
• Effects for variant ammo will be taken from standard NV effects.
  
• Ammo weight, value, "clip rounds" etc will be determined loosely based on existing Fo3 ammunition, real world values and "common sense". Gameplay is not the focus of the library, but some effort will be made to ensure it's balanced.

I'm starting from a clean slate here and any calibre I add will have to be requested. If I take general requests I will eventually have added all ammunition ever, so only mod authors can make requests.
The more information you can give the better. At the least I want a wikipedia page, or similar. Any additional information regarding any alternative types, names of said types etc, not mentioned on wikipedia is also welcome.
Shotgun ammo, launched grenades and rockets, and other exotic ammunition will be included.
One of the benefits of energy weapons is the generic ammo, so I won't add new energy sources without good arguments.
Only real-world or Fallout lore ammunition will be considered (without extremely good reasons). Fantasy ammunition will probably not have compatibility issues anyway.

Please check the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas_ammunition before requesting. I will also keep a list in this first post of requested calibres.

Feedback is welcome, as are suggestions for changes (although I don't guarantee I will listen.... ).

List:
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?act=findpost&pid=16553596
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?act=findpost&pid=16594328
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?act=findpost&pid=16634165 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.8_mm_Remington_SPC
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?act=findpost&pid=16594328
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?act=findpost&pid=16634165 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9x39mm

Awesome! Glad to hear you'll be porting CALIBR over to New Vegas. The more ammo; the merrier. :foodndrink:

Why not also make a hand load type of ammo? You could also put in ammo breakdown/creation recipes and only show them if a mod tells the game those ammo types are used (via setting a global variable specific to each caliber).

I guess I get the honor of first request!

.22 WMR. It's incompatible with .22 (the cartridge diameter is the same, but it's twice as long). Real-world cost is roughly the same as 9mm (slightly lower). It physically weighs about 1.3x to 1.6x a .22 LR depending on powder load. Same bullet, so same types ("plinking" = FMJ, "hollowpoint" = JHP)

If I may ask, how do you plan on allowing future compatability?

AFAIK only one mod can alter any given form list (barring future list merging tools). If you add AP/HP/etc to an ammo list and another mod adds something else whichever form list entries that overlap will be conflicting. Wouldn't ALL custom ammo types have to be included in CALIBR to be compatible?

Just curious because I intend to use CALIBR support for any mods I release. Just wanna understand what to aim for modding-wise from the start.

Glad to see my brainchild is still alive and kicking!

I've barely had the chance to even play FNV, let alone poke at the editor. Hopefully working out how to craft new ammo won't be prohibitively difficult.

Add another vote for Match-Grade/Hand-load/Special rounds. I had never even heard of Semi-Wad Cutters and Jacketed Soft Point until I wiki'ed what I was making for my guns.

http://geck.gamesas.com/index.php/AddFormToFormList

Good info talkietoaster. Gotta keep that one in mind.

I will not be porting xCALIBR Ammo pack to NewVegas, so if anyone is interested in taking up the job, please ping me and coordinate with Tubal.

Because I have to leave something for other modders to do.
The only reason I'll add any variants at all is that those three will probably be created by either the requester or someone else anyway. If I do it first then that will, again, prevent overlap.


An example of a good request.


That the Toaster said. It's all been taken care of.


That's too bad! It's the sort of mod I always wanted for CALIBR, but could never summon the drive to do myself.

Not doing so will cause overlap, though (if you leave out the other common ammo types and two other mods come along and add weapons that use those ammo types and have their own hand-loaded ammo or whatever, you just caused there to be multiple types of hand-loaded ammo/etc). This is supposed to be a community ammunition library designed to make that sort of thing not happen. Why deliberately leave things out?

Because it's not designed to replace modding. The more things I add, the fewer slots will be available for others to fill. It will also create more work for me, work that could be done better by someone who is actually interested in the obscure calibre he's modding for.
The number of overlaps when removing the three most common variants is going to (probably) be negligible. Most importantly: it will still work, which is the main point of an ammunition standard. Having two types of hand-loads might be slightly confusing, but they will both work properly in any gun they're designed for. Just think of them as different brands.

There's a line to walk when you make a standardised system, I try to err towards simplicity. If it ever becomes apparent that what every modder wants is explosive .30-03 then I can always add it later.

How would actually trying to do what you say the CALIBR mod is for replace modding? You advertise it as a standard that will reduce/eliminate conflicts and duplicated ammunition, yet you're saying that you don't want to add in some of the standard alternative ammo types because it will 'replace modding'. That seems a little silly.

I'm not suggesting you do it for every possible variant - just the variants that are part of the core game, since they're probably going to be the most common ones that are desired. Besides, the hand loaded ones are the type with crafting recipes, and doubling of them would be a hell of a lot more annoying than just doubling of an ammo type.

I have to disagree with your viewpoint Langy.

Creating a standard that includes every single possible variation of every possible caliber is effectively no standard at all.

You may want 57 varieties of 5.56mm ammo based on grain, powder, brands, slug, casing, etc. But I wouldn't.

Frankly, I'm getting out of the game because I see where this is going. It was hard enough coming up with eye candy for the dozen's of round used exclusively by 20th Century Weapons. I really don't care to keep up the resources when the number of cailbrs explodes 10 times.

NV provides a built-in mechanism to craft ammo, so modders should look to build ammo crafting for unique rounds if they want to release weapons that use them. Packing CALIBR with mostly useless clutter will absolutely destroy it.

Tubal has generously taken the responsibility to use his wise counsel to balance the needs of the many against the needs of the few.

There are 11 different ammo types in NV, only counting bullet type small arms. Hand loads alone are 5 different types. Only armour piercing and hollow point occur more than twice.

Hand loads are especially problematic in a standard, since they can be customised as much as the loader wants, and that's also how they're used in vanilla NV. If I were to add them then I would replace other mods, to some extent.

You don't need to define what they do - there's only one type of hand loaded ammunition per weapon, after all. Just make a generic 'hand load' base ammo type that other mods can refer to and alter if they feel like it. Yeah, you'll have conflicts where some mods might not create they same hand load type or something, but you'll at least wind up with the hand-load ammo actually being useable in any weapon that uses that type of ammunition and you won't have twenty different recipes for that form of ammo.

Earache: I never suggested making every possible variant. Only the standard ones already in the game.

And the standard types are regular, hollow point, and armour piercing.

Technically, only the form lists for each calibre is needed for the standard to work. Since at least one type of ammo will be required, I go one step further and add a base type to all calibres.
I then go one more step and add the two most common types. They are likely to be created anyway, and they have well-defined properties.
Any more, and the benefits are questionable at best.

As I said: there's a line to walk, and that's where I draw it.

I've been messing around with Energy weapons recently, and whilst they're not directly brass & powder related I think they'd benefit from CALIBR. If you try making alternate say Microfusion cells that change the projectile or runs a particular script on hit, then they'll change to the same projectile for both Laser and Plasma weapons, which isn't desirable- and Flamers firing Incinerator projectiles and visa versa are just daft. They really need unique ammo lists for each weapon, which need to be in a master file- so we can have things like FlamerAmmo with say Flamer & Flamer Airblast, and IncineratorAmmo with just Flamer.

It might not be problematic to merge some lists (e.g. Plasma pistol/plasma defender, laser rifle/tribeam, laser RCW/gatling laser)?

I've been thinking about what you've said, and I think you have a valid point. However, you'd have to have separate ammo lists then, and that means changing the weapons. Editing content is something I don't want to do, because that will break compatibility and possibly cause modders to not use the library in the first place.

I could add new lists, duplicates of the vanilla lists, that weapons mods/overhauls can then switch to if they want to, but that's as far as I want to go.

Which types, and how many variations of each would there have to be?

Yeah, that's pretty much all we'd need, and keeping it unimplemented prevents issues with people having differing ideas of whether or not the uniques should have alternate ammo (as the green beam laser unique could end up firing red alternate ammo).

I'd suggest:

• Fuel Flamer
  
• Fuel Incinerator
  
• MFBreeder Recharger
  
• SEC Laser Pistol
  
• MFC Laser Rifle
  
• ECP Laser Auto (RCW/Gatling)
  
• SEC Plasma Pistol
  
• MFC Plasma Rifle
  
• MFC Plasma Heavy (for the Caster & QM-35)
  
• ECP Tesla Cannon
  
• MFC Gauss Rifle

To possibly solve the uniques problem you could also add SEC Laser Pistol Yellow, and MFC Laser Rifle Green, but I don't know if that's entirely necessary.

Great you are doing this, was hoping someone picked this up.
My wishes are no-brainers but wanted to express them anyways (a shame they werent included in the first place)

.45 ACP
7,62x39mm*





* (maybe ít should have a slight DT-reduction by default, standard military FMJ ammo penetrates quite well compared to say 5.56nato.)

I want to +1 TalkieToaster's commentary regarding the energy weapons. The weapons that use MFCs are probably the best example. You can't change the projectile record for a new MFC ammo type without it affecting all MFC-using weapons, from the Tesla Cannon to the Tri-beam Laser Rifle.

While I can see a point in not "editing" as you stated; anyone wishing to mod a custom projectile for any MFC using weapon is currently required to do exactly that. It makes more sense for the library to do it first and establish a clean base to work from thereafter.

It is also possible to selectively exclude certain ammo subtypes from a weapon by pointing it to a different form list for its selected ammo (or simply to an ammo form).

For example, if you want the AER14 prototype to only use stock MFCs or to only use stock + OC + MC and not the special projectile-changing version, it can use a separate form list for ammo than the normal laser rifle.

You can do similar things with .38 Special revolvers that can't fire .357 Magnum (for example).

Yep, the question's just whether or not to supply extra lists specifically for them beyond the AmmoListMicroFusionCell etc. that will remain unchanged & unadded to. If the AER14 prototype does get its own separate MFCLaserGreen list, modders are going to have to make variant Green laser ammo to add to it in addition to the Red they'll be adding to the new MFCLaser list, and clutter up recipe lists and vendor inventories with green versions of their variant power cells that will see very little use, when there's already going to be a lot of extras added.

I've run into another issue CALIBR could address, but it's moving increasingly far away from its original remit. Impact data is defined on the weapon, so you can't make alternate ammo that changes projectile colour or it looks odd (ultraviolet 'blue' beam lasers with red impact effects)... unless you override the default impact data by putting a fake explosion on the projectile and specifying the impact data on that explosion to be green/blue/whatever. To prevent everyone having to make their own fake explosions when we only need a standard 4-5, CALIBR could include them and instructions for using them in the readme for modders. Alternatively, is this just getting to the point where I should stop hassling you and spin off an entirely separate energy weapons resource?

E: Argh, another idea, at least this one's not 'energy weapons hijack lol'. Finding an unused existing ammo and turning it into a 0-weight, unplayable 'companion ammo' and adding it to every ammo list would be helpful. Thanks to the "index 0 ammo is default ammo" stuff any mod that attempts to add infinite ammo for companion weapons by adding an infinite ammo to the list for their weapons will accidentally screw up that weapon (as addformtoformlist adds at index 0). Making it an existing, unused ammo rather than a new form would allow for other mods to use it in the same way in their own esps, and be compatible with CALIBR and CALBRated weapons.