I'm an avid bethesda modder and mod-user, but i've been out of the game for over a year.

What I'm Looking For:

A revamp mod that:

Expands on the RPG aspects like Arwen's
Provides a customizability like XFO
Adds higher resolution textures & better facegen heads
Provides more content (like the expanded weapon mods, and added weapons (balanced with XFO/Arwen)), additional quests, etc.
Realistic damages...(shots to limbs cripple with greater frequency, headshots are either fatal or close to it)
Includes freeplay after main quest

Includes helpful things like:
The crafting backpack
bottles that can be filled with water
populated casinos
portable campsite mod

And some very necessary tweaks that:
Fix those incredibly annoying cazadors
Make energy weapons useful

And most important to me of all:
Adheres to a universal standard of quality
Fits well with the established fallout universe

I know that I can have all this stuff with a large collection of mods, I used to. The problem comes with acquiring and making sure they are all compatible. And then finding out there's a weapon that does massive or insignificant damage because it wasn't balanced to the collection of mods i'm running. Right now I'm just going to run xfo & war and hope somebody comes along with the answer. Any help would be appreciated.

The answer is no, you're going to have to use the list you just posted, which IMO is the better option
because now most of those things will be optional, rather than part of one huge mega-bloated mod.

And let's face it, once a mod becomes that gigantic, you're at the mercy of what the modder likes and dislikes as far as features go,
so you're actually better off with the list you posted, and by using FnvMasterUpdate and FOMM you should be able
to get them all playing nicely together. :disguise:

If you really are frugal about what you pick and choose, you may not need to use FNVMasterUpdate/Merge patch procedures like me.

I've got few peices of XFO, Project Nevada, WMX, Arwen's camera tweaks, New Vegas Bounties 1 and 2, bottle water mod, crafting backpack mod, and lots of over small tweaks here and there.

The important part is Load Order, Conflict Check (basically, making sure that no two mods mess with the same thing. This is where reading the readme is important), Merge ESP and Master Update when necessary.

All I need to really do is the first two steps, really, and I havent had a game go "NO CAN DO" on me yet. I'm already pretty darn far in my current modded game

I'm wondering, are there any mods that edit global values for weapon damages and things of that nature, as that should help with the crazy discrepancies between original and mod-added weaponry? Does XFO do that?

First off, FNVMasterUpdate breaks New Vegas Bounties' startup, and apparently a lot of mods that uses scripts as well when first loaded. Not sure why but it does. That's why I've haven't master updated my list in quite some time.

Alot of times, mods will do as they say but at the same time, conflict with other mods to make it work. Let's take http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35011 and http://newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=40980 for instance. WARZONES adds off-the-map places, which IWR allows, or prevents access to but doesn't go with WARZONES' area so WARZONES builds it's own area with it's own boundaries that overrides IWR. That's just one example out of the many that occur in a lot of mods. Having conflicts is one thing but sometimes, conflicts are purposeful and required. Relying on BOSS can be a good starting point to sort mods. I guess I should know from experience considering I've done some things on it to make it less conflict-happy. But like you said, you need to read the readme or get a grasp of what it is doing and compare it to what you have. This is especially the case with mods that have scripts, as those will NEVER EVER be shown as being conflicts in FNVEdit.

What's interesting is that if you're using one of WMX's optional .esps, I.E. Dead Money, Modern Weapons, etc..., you already need a Merged patch as the containers will conflict. A lot of mods change vendors as well and that needs Merge patching as well. And the game will only say a 'NO CAN DO' if either you max out your .esp's, or it just doesn't like something.

I won't talk about my merge patch in particular but it does a lot of things... and when I have to re-do it all over again... there goes another hour of my life making it work haha.



XFO, to my knowledge, uses a combination of scripts and values to achieve it's purpose. Most people will tell you though, changing the weapon damage, or auto aim distance, or anything else like that, is something you can probably do on your own with a little help and knowledge. That's why you rarely see one weapon damage mods on the Nexus, aside from maybe the Fat Man.

Also you have to factor in things like WMX and WME that deal with original weaponry yet add something that isn't in the base game onto it. So in the end, I'm really not sure what your question is asking.

@OP Question:

Like the others have said, it's best just to pick and choose rather than using a be-all, end-all mod with many, many, many modules. To be honest, I feel that those types of mods gimp your playing experience. They may include popular mods and all but that's just the thing, it may only consist of popular mods. There are a lot of hidden gems in the Nexus that don't show up until they get their big break. One such example would actually be Vurt's Wasteland Flora Overhaul. It didn't explode on the Nexus like it has lately. Then there's those small weapon mods you really, really like that don't get much attention because they get lost in the amount of weapons there are.

Really? I've had no problems with NVBounties.

"Fixed" that for you - last I checked, MasterUpdate was unnecessary with NV. Unless, of course, they broke it again, but you should still refer to FNVEdit anyway.

Thanks, but there was no need to "fix" it for me.
I use FNVMasterUpdate because WMX calls for making a patch for it, and I don't want to get back in to screwing around with WryeFlash,
FNVMasterUpdate has been working just fine for me, of course I haven't "upgraded" to the 3019 version either :shrug:

I think WMX states you need a merged patch to handle the levellists, but not masterupdate, yes? I've hearing some rather polarized perspectives on FNVMasterUpdate. I've read a number of people who suggests it is no longer necessary (certainly not to the extent that it was in FO3, particularly for those who experienced the head/body skin discolouring issue), and a number of people who said it fixed XXX problem they have (the "CTD while trying to save" comes to mind). Anyone else want to add to the confusion? Or maybe just an explanation on what FNVMasterUpdate can fix?

For me, (I use 3016) it sorts my mod load order, changes my esp's to esm flags, and then I load everything up in fnvedit to make the WMX patch.
WMX says to make a patch with Fnvedit, unless he's changed it, I've heard 3019 Fnvedit is broken?

I am using FNVEdit version 3019. You should update to the latest version. On WMX: you need to do a merged patch (either using FNVEdit or Wrye Flash) to merge the levelled lists so the WMX mods will appear in vendor inventory and loot. But I don't think you need FNVMasterUpdate to flag all your esp's into esm's.

I heard 3019 is wonky and breaks things right now.

I use Masterupdate to smooth out conflicts, without doing it, I'd CTD a lot, after giving them all esm flags
everything works fine.
And yes., I use Fnvedit to make the patch for WMX.

It varies from user-to-user apparently, like a lot of gosh darn things relating to mods, but it's stated on the NVB description to not use it as it'll break the initial loadup of the mod. Anytime after loading it up for the first time, I would think, is fine.



It never sorted MY load order when I used it. >_> It must totally like you better.

3.019 isn't THAT broken in particular. It is definitely more unstable than 3.016 mainly, from what I can tell, in oddly enough, the merged patch that you can make. More often than not, any issues I've had with the latest version is attributed to the merge patch.

Yeah, that's one thing that I heard which FNVMasterUpdate fixes, and in fact experienced, which is the corrupt game saves that become noticeable when you CTD while trying to save just after transitioning between cells. I use v3019, but I haven't noticed any problems...well, except when I apply filters...

That's why I never used BOSS, because I'd load FOMM, look at my load order, close FOMM, run FNVMasterUpdate and the load order would be different
the next time I loaded FOMM. Don't know why :shrug:

FNVMasterUpdate + CASM, CASM actually reduced what was left of any crashes I had, because it completely bypasses
the crappy gamebryo savegame engine.

CASM will be the first mod I download for FO3 and FONV from now on.

BOSS is a general sorting utility, but I used it once after I reinstalled the game and downloaded a bunch of mods to give me a general idea of where the big overhaul mods should be ordered in relation to each other. Like you, now I only use FNVEdit to check for conflicts and decide the order of new mods I now download.

FNVMasterUpdate should not change your load order, but keep in mind that it flags all esp's into esm's, and all esm's will automatically load prior to esp's. So, if you added a new esp to your data folder and didn't esm-ify it, just changing it's load order position in FOMM will not work. Alternatively, you can also use Wrye Flash to lock the date stamp on your plugins after you set them in FOMM (but remember you need to unlock them again in Wrye Flash before you change your load order again). Although...this is the first I've heard of FOMM changing load orders without user intervention....

Yeah, CASM is a lifesaver.

I guess the question is: Is the sorting by FNVMasterUpdate accurate? It may be set up differently in BOSS than from what you get. I wouldn't say "Don't trust what it's doing," as your game is still working fine after all, but it's really weird what you're describing. Heck, it could attributed to FOMM actually it has a weird habit, when I used it, of messing with my load order when it shouldn't of. Plus, with FOMM's updating being broken and all, it could just mean that the sorting is taking place with an outdated masterlist, which I wouldn't be surprised to see.

EDIT: I do remember now that using FNVMasterUpdate definitely does jumble around with your load order... though not sure to what extent. Often times, it could just be that it's ordering it randomly.

I preferred MasterUpdates load order over BOSS's

I think there a slight misunderstanding. FNVMasterUpdate does not sort load orders. What I believe Occam meant is that he uses FO3Edit to manually check for mod conflicts rather than rely on BOSS's infinite wisdom (then reorders them in FOMM)--something that I actually highly recommend now. BOSS was "mostly correct" when it came out for Oblivion, but after the comparison I did between BOSS's latest masterlist and my own hours of pouring through plugin manually in FO3Edit, I'd have to say BOSS for NV is only now "somewhat correct." Besides, once you have a 100+ plugin list, you pretty much need to create your own compatibility patches via FO3Edit if you want to see all the changes added by the mods. Otherwise many of the changes will be overwritten by the last conflicting mod that loads. The other day, I spent hours making a mini-patch for Cliff's "non-edible bottles", LFox's "Bottle That Water", "Destructibles", my own plugin for removing healing effects from food, and FOOK NV, just so I could get drinks with FOOK's naming scheme, that can be destroyed (really satisfying, like popping bubble wraps...trust me), that deposited empty bottles after consumption, which can be used to bottle water, and have no healing effects because my character is just really that "hardcoe"

Well, let's get this straight: From what I can tell, based on the shirt time I've spent being a masterlist updater for BOSS, conflicts are going to happen. BOSS can't fix them all. It can fix things like the Nevada Skies update I did the other day, sure, but when two or more mods are doing different things to one item, it's inevitable. Currently, I would rather not touch more than I should, but to be frank, but if you think that some incorrect sorting on BOSS' part can be fixed to make it so that it doesn't conflict with other mods, seriously feel free to give suggestions on the thread. Everything, and I do mean, everything on the masterlist is not set in stone. It can literally be flopped around for all I know and I can do that. However, I won't is all.

Even when I use BOSS to sort my loading order, I depend on my merge patch to fix things, as I put overrides into it rather than making more .esp's. Also, since some .esp's I have are no longer updated, I just make it compatible, then and there. Currently, my load order given from BOSS doesn't have a conflict that could be preventable so I can't exactly do anything about changing it to be better unless I go on some mad hunt to make it better.

Nope, I don't use FO3Edit.

I didn't do anything by hand.
I use FNVedit to make my WMX Patch.

I copied and renamed FNVedit.exe to FNVMasterUpdate.exe and ran it to esmify my esps, and found that my load order was different than before I esmified it,
stuff like Electrocity and the like ended up in the correct places in my load order and everything worked fine.

Maybe my load order gets changed because of the way have sorting set in my Data folder and when MasterUpdate re-dates the files, my load order
gets changed.
Either way, it's working great for me, I personally don't mess around manually checking for conflicts I can't be bothered.

Sorry, that was a typo, I meant FNVEdit, not FO3Edit.

Hmm...FNVMasterUpdate redates files? I didn't know that. Can anyone else confirm, because....it shouldn't be doing that. Like Skyline says, I don't think it's ever done that for me. But didn't you just mention that you use FOMM to set your load order manually a few posts back?



Well, I meant no offense. I hope you didn't read me as suggesting that BOSS is somehow 'useless now' or that the people involved in maintaining the masterlist was somehow inept. I am "old school", like, before FO3Edit, before BOSS, before even FCOM, when you actually had to learn what mod conflicts mean, when all load orders were set up manually, and when community members spent a great deal of time sharing their load orders and explaining them to other players. BOSS was a miracle aid for the problem of having massive number of mods when it was released, but what I've seen since those days is that so many BOSS users tend to be people who just run BOSS and think it resolves -everything- (in spite of the BOSS readme's clear disclaimer), like it absolves them of having to learn the basics of running a modded setup. It use to be that you can customize your own masterlist.txt, basically turns BOSS into your own semi-automatic FOMM. I am not sure you can anymore (I didn't look too closely).

No offense taken. I'm basically one of the "new kids" from New Vegas that looked into the whole modding scene. Can't do it myself of course, but I apparently provide as a good troubleshooting person so that mod authors don't have to deal with it. That doesn't mean that I'm not that informed about load orders though. For instance:



The main thing about conflicts is not that, "Is it conflicting?" but rather "Why does it conflict and how will it impact its purpose?", from what I can tell. That's what I have to ask myself too when I see the masterlist and where groups and .esp's are. BOSS actually got this right as I was always weary of touching the .esm group, even today with editing access. I may do some more cleaning up on the .esm's and all, but that's about it.

I can understand that notion of thinking as BOSS as a be-all, end-all. While it attempts to do that, again it cannot because things will eventually conflict. It'll do its best but in the end, the load order is completely up to the user to determine. Being ignorant of the fact that things will conflict is probably the simplest, and most fatal, mistake any user can make.

Oh, and what you're referring to the userlist.txt with the user rules readme page. It's primary use is to sort user-created patches / mods that shouldn't be sorted in the masterlist to prevent super-bloating. Neat things can be done with it.

From the FNVedit Manual

When Master Update Mode is activated, the following operations are performed without further user interaction:

1. All modules in the Data folder are assigned into 2 groups, Masters and Plugins, based on their file extension (.ESM or .esp).
2. The modules in each group are sorted by file modification date/time.
3. All module files are re-dated, first all Masters, then all Plugins, in 1 minute intervals.
4. All active modules are then loaded, the ESM flag set in the file header if not yet present, and the ONAM sub records build if required.
5. Any temporary overriding world space record that has at least one previous version that is persistent is marked as persistent.
6. All modified modules are saved.

This process will result in a better-integrated group of mods, and will likely result in less crashes than without having run Master Update Mode.
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