I wanto train alchemy with the trainer at the dark brotherhood, can you join them and get to that trainer without mudering anyone?
The other trainers dont have master training..

You need to murder Grelod the Kind, there is no other way to get into their sanctuary.

Nope, you have to kill at least 2 people before your able to enter the Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary. On the plus side, Grelod deserves to die and the 3 people that are tied up aren't neccessarily good. One's a merc who you could make an arguement for killing, one is a rude [censored] who deserves to get killed and the other pretty much admits that he's evil.

You also need to murder another person in the abandonned house to join them and have acces to the master trainer in alchemy.

And no there are no other way to gain access to this trainer, or the light armor one.

Nope, you have to kill at least 2 people.

I wouldn't say that being rude with someone kidnaping, tying and puting a bag in your head makes you desserves being killed.

I readed on the wikia,that if you killed at least 2 agents and pick up their notes you can join them(I don't know if it's true,never tried).But don't worry,the people you kill on the DB quests are not soo good.

Thanks for the answers.

Yeah, your count can be 2-4 before you even get in.

Wouldnt make sense to join an assassins guild if you dont want to kill some people

I think the OP was simply trying to confirm that there are or aren't some hard-set conditions to enter the DB , not that he had a problem with the actual killing.

In the hut with the captives I actually had some respect for the lady b!tching me out , all the while sitting next to a supposed sell-sword that's survived many battles and is supposedly super-awesome guy whining like a cuckolded dog.The argonian basically admits his traits to you in a fearless manner , which I grudgingly respected also , but in the end dooming the mercenary to the rest of his life reliving his cowardice and whining was a far better option than killing him.The woman I simply couldn't bring myself to kill because of this simple everyday person having such personal bravery , so yeah I killed the guy that actually warns you of repercussions "if he gets out of this".Bye bye lizard guy and I'l keep an eye out for your buddies......

You could use a frenzy spell to make the womean carer kill Grelod, then use frenzy spell on Astrid to make her kill the hostages. Don't know if it would add murder count to your crime stats screen though.

there are all kinds of assassins as can be seen in the sanctuary. one mage almost turned someone inside out.

as long as the spell gets you in to the Dark brotherhood who cares?

If you are just looking to get into the Sanctuary can't you just kill the mean teacher lady and then attack the DB agent in the Abandon house? You wouldn't have to kill the captives then and your only outright murder would be the lady abusing the orphans who honestly has it coming. You can then get a mission to attack the Sanctuary gaining access to the armor and stuff but not making you a DB agent.

He wants to train with a DB agent, so he has to join.

Also, don't kill the old lady in the abandoned cabin unless you already own the Winterhold home, or it may cause issues.