just a bunch of cowards who call themsleves the empire i remember 200 years ago they didn't run they didn't cowar or hide they never surrendered your opinions?

What? I dont even...

Much have changed in the last 200 years. The Thalmor gained power in Alinor for example.

have you gone through any of the imperial missions or just ranting as a very stormcloak sided person?

the empire we Know would have never surrendered to the thalmor and would have rather died. but some pu$$y emporer...

do the questline if you have an issue with the emperor...

I doubt it. We do not know the Septim Empire would not have surrendered. The only reason the Empire is still alive is because the Dominion was to weak to defeat it, though this is true the other way as well. The peace was made so both the Dominion and the Empire could try to rebuild themselves.

I think their lovely people, they let me fight on the front lines as canon fodder for their army, they even got me to do some one man errands a few times for no reason, that was pretty nice of them not to pick someone else for such hard tasks <3.

By signing the treaty the Empire harmed itself more then it helped itself. Had the Empire just rejected the treaty and attacked with the help of the Nords and Redguards it wouldn't of been as bad as it is now that the Thalmor have weakened them. It is funny how without even drawing a sword they still manage to cause blood shed and weaken the Empire.

I'm an Imperial and I find this offensive.

There is a few books that detail the war. Both sides were so spread out over the Empire, that there was no way either side was going to win an all crushing victory. The Dominion was in Hammerfall, Morrowind, and a few other places that I can't remember off hand. They had large armies, both sides in those areas. The Empire basically lost one too many crushing defeats, and sent armies into places that were not strategically sound targets, and were basically wasted. Not to mention that the Legions were all spread to all corners of the Empire, spread way too thin with missions that required 2-4 Legions at best to even try and defend a province successfully.

It's a shame really, my Dark Elf would totally support the Stormcloaks,but they are so racist to any Elven race that I turn to the Empire. I never once saw an Elven officer within the Stormcloak forces. I saw a Dark Elf Legate and I was like, yup they are for me, FOR THE EMPIRE!

The Empire basically took the best they could of a crap situation. The Dominion would have eventually taken the Imperial City, but at a huge cost to the Dominion. The Empire probably would have been able to bounce back after about 10 years, maybe less than that. Just came down to the fact that the Empire was so large, that it spread the Dominion too thin to compensate for the Empires over extended self, that a pseudo-stalemate seemed to be the best thing for the Empire, even though the Dominion got one over on the Empire with the Thalmor getting everything they wanted and then some.

The story is that both sides had profound losses, but only the Thalmar new how badly the Dominion fared, so they got the better part of the deal. If the Imperials had known Dominion couldn't withstand a counter-offensive, they would have attacked.

As it was, the Empire was so weak from casulties, that they didn't think they could attack AND defend the Imperial City. So it seemed like their only choice, they needed to buy time, and rebuild some. So they decided to do as the Dominion demanded, and outlaw Talos. That's the first thing you do though, buy time, make the enemy think you are defeated and subjugated.

Just exactly like the 1st Punnic War. Hannibal defeated Rome, but suffered very heavy losses, and didn't think he could take Rome. Not knowing how badly Rome had been defeated, and knowing only his armies own losses, he decided to turn back, and not to siege Rome. Both sides felt too weak to keep fighting. But only Carthage knew Carthage was too weak. Still, a peace treaty bought time and 20 years later, Rome destroyed Carthage, and burned it. Archaeologists can still see the thick layer of ash, in the exacavated parts of the ruin.

The Septim Empire, will come back. It was founded by a god. The Thalmar are just arrogant wimps that got lucky. Sure, they think they're clever, turning (some of) the Nords against the Empire. It has caused chaos. But they haven't attacked. They aren't strong enough to, even with Skyrim divided. Not taking the Imperial City was a huge mistake, just like Hannibal.

Even so, they would have been better off to reject the treaty and attack. Then lose both the support of Hammerfell and Skyrim leaving them all alone in their war against the Thalmor.

No they wouldn't have. The Empire will almost certainly be able to build it's forces faster than the Thalmour (industrial base isn't that imporant, rebuilding manpower is the central aspect of building armies in the pre-industrial world and human populations grow faster. If the Empire had immediately counter attacked, the Thalmour might very well have been able to win their crushing victory and won the war outright. By waiting the Empire only strengthens its position so long as it can hold its provinces and actually get a bit of peace. While the Empire appeared to get the "weak" end of the stick they made a very wise strategic decision and it'll pay dividends in the medium term.

All this brow beating and arrogant pride only serves to get a lot of good people killed (not to mention the end of existence). Time in the short and medium term is in the Empire's favor and the day will come when the Thalmour are very sorry for risking all in Cyrodil and losing... They should have stuck to the script.

-Starcrunch

Wasting soldiers fighting a civil war in Skyrim, a war which may mean the lost of their Nord allies along with already having lost Hammerfell all because they signed the treaty is better off then saying no and continuing to have the support of both? I fail to see any logic in that.

Look up some war time tactics called divide and conquer. It is exactly what the Elves are doing to the Empire right now and the Thalmor are the only ones who profit from the treaty because it will result in a even weaker Empire then before the treaty was signed. The Elves are basically spilling blood without even having to raise a sword.

Enclave! Oh wait wrong game sorry ;-]

They even tried to give you the honor of having your head cut off!! YAY!! I am a stormcloak supporter but I think they should have presented the empire better, it just makes you not like them from the start.

I think I know what you're getting at... OP?

This is not the Septim Dynasty. The Empire is vastly weakened and morale is what makes soldiers fight. If you fight for a weak country, you assume you are weak as well, and so you shall be.

The old Empire fell 200 years ago. That is why this one is willing to toss aside the old values in lieu of the Thalmor's demands

A grammar Nazi died after reading the OP.

Uriel was a rather subtle fellow in some cases. I doubt he would've even let the thalmor resistance even take off. (He sure capitalized on the unrest of High Rock in Daggerfall, and stopped a god from becoming a real threat in Morrowind.)

I have played multiple characters on both sides and I have to say that the empire basically lost the war, infact they were at one point defeated and cyrodil was invaded and taken by the dominion. With the help of skyrim and the norms they were able to make 1 last effort at the capital and they won because they surprised the dominion. As soon as they got the capital back they signed the wgc, not because they wanted to but because it was the best possible outcome. They would have been destroyed completely if the dominion attacked again, but instead they bought themselves some time to get a force strong enough to oppose them. And the only thing ulfric is doing is weakening them because he wants to be high king. everybody in skyrim basically still worships talos and still hates the thalmor, but the storm cloaks are helping the thalmor more than the empire is and they are to dumb to relize it.

The elves were weak too. Its not like if the emperor disagreed to the treaty the elves would have magically pulled an army out of their butt and attacked once more. There was a reason they retreated and put forth another treaty. Had they seriously had the man power they would of marched in and defeated the Empire once and for all.

Losing 2 of your greatest allies isn't the best thing the Empire could have done. Saying no would have kept their allies while still being able to rebuild for some time. Instead of now being forced to fight a dumb civil war.

I agree with you Ulfric and the stormcloaks are being stupid. However lets not fool ourselves into thinking signing the treaty was for the best. It was a cowardly move that cost the Empire Hamerfell and now Skyrim along with soldiers it has to waste on Skyrim.