Is it just me or does it seem like the defensive team is able to return the "package" you or a team mate have dropped too easily? You work your butt off with the team to grab it and start to transport it, and if you get killed the other team can return it allllllll the way back at its spawn in like 3-4 secs. I'd like to see one of a few changes made to this mechanic.

1. Instead of the other team being able to magically return the item, I'd like to see it stay where it was dropped. Forcing the defensive team to play better, more skillful defense on the fly. And this would make all of the Offensive team's effort worth something.

2. Or, I'd like to see the time it takes Defense to magically return it increased by 2 or 3 times what it is now.

This is really the only objective mechanic I don't like. First because I think it makes no sense at all that an item my team has to carry, can somehow be returned magically back to it's spawn. Second, for the difficulty of moving the item, the ease at which D can return it is totally unbalanced.


Any thoughts? Any other ideas? Discuss.

or the other team might have to carry it back?

Capture the flag has always been like this...

I agree with you, its hard work to move up with the case only to have to do it all over agin on the next respawn. I would like to see the respawn timer shortened by a few seconds because sometimes it feels like a life time.

I realize that, but, the defensive team isn't capping anything. Ambush, kill, walk over to the package and magically return it within a few secs.


@ Dyalln and IPUR3 EVIL, I like both of those ideas.

I just think that this type of objective can be made more fun with a few tweaks to the mechanic. More fun > frustration.

I would personally enjoy having multiple areas to bring "the package" it would help stop that horrible example of a camp fest that is the final stage of "Smash n' grab" on the security campaign. It can be way too difficult when 8 bots are idly watching their radars and getting their auto aim ready at the drop off point.

I think it works mostly.
You have to have a team to deliver the package. A solo dash hardly ever works and all the attackers need to do to pick up the item is slide over it on their way to cover.
I don't think the item should stay where it is after dropping and I don't think the defence should carry it back.
If it's too difficult to deliver then maybe make the return timer 3 seconds longer, but I have to say I've been killed a number of times trying looking at the little blue ring around the oil can as defence
Just remember to take an operative with you to check for mines in front of your target, make sure you have a backup carrier close by in case you're killed and don't lead the charge. Let your teammates spearhead the charge and tie up as many of the opposition as possible before you break cover.
Also: having a bodyshield or two between you and the enemy can get you an extra second or two to complete the objective.

If you have a sneaky medic then get him to buff you with an adrenaline boost when you go to hand in, making you invulnerable for a short time period. Who cares if you die after you complete the objective?

I prefer this option. Defenders have to pick it up manually and get themselves back to the starting point. If you pick it up, regardless of whether you're stealing it or returning, you have an objective location, and gain XP by getting closer to where you're meant to take it - everyone near the objective gets XP for defending it, whether there's a carrier or not, but the carrier only gains XP for heading towards the objective.

This would also prevent issues where stupid bots return the objective, only to find that an enemy is waiting at the return location and picks the thing up again instantly.

Lots of great tips in this post. Some are easier said than done. Especially with and against a bot team. Great post though.

Thanks. I was assuming a human team. Bots do get in the way when it comes to the package missions.
Especially when they grab the package before you can get to it and then go skipping off into the gunfire. Sometimes you have to camp the item spawn point just so you can have a little control over the flow of the battle.
Sometimes I wish there was a /facepalm command that would make the bots blush and say "sorry".

This isn't bad as long as there is something forcing the other team to return the package in a reasonable period of time. The biggest thing is you don't want the other team to have a mechanic where they can just essentially run the clock on you.

Otherwise, I could see an opposing team member running off to their spawn and blocking the other team from being able to get the package.

That's a good point that I wasn't even thinking about.

You'd have to prevent a defense carrier from entering their spawn, because that would be a ridiculous exploit.

Well spotted.

You'd need to do a lot more than that. Can you imagine a pair of light bodies on defence grabbing the package and running off to hide? They could move the package even further away than the original starting point and climb up to some crazy position that's difficult for most people to get to and sit there.
Luckily you can always see the halo so it'd be difficult to hide it but if you find getting it to the hand-in is hard then try imagine a pair of good runners keeping it away from you while the defence ready another ambush for your return.

Either that or a heavy will grab it and sit behind cover with a couple of pocket medics and you'll never kill him to get it back.

You'd need to make the package cause damage to defenders while they carry it to force them to return it as quickly as possible but then it's flipping over to the other side where noone wants to return it so it's easy for the attackers to inch closer to the hand-in.

How it works now is pretty good. The defenders should never be able to pick up the package. Too many exploits lie down that path. If anything you may want to increase the return timer a touch.

Either that or have the package "slide" back along the path it came unless an attacker picks it up. I still don't like that idea though and it seems horrible to implement, but it may be a fair balance between "must be carried back" and "defenders should not pick it up ever".

I don't think the defenders should be able to return it. I think that it should sit on the ground where it was dropped. The defenders can defend it from where it dropped and if it sits on the ground for 20-30 seconds (or whatever a fair amount of time for both teams would be), it is automatically reset.

So far I'm liking this idea the best, let it reset after awhile, but ffs, give us time to get back to it and re-cap. With the spawns so far away from the action on some maps, I think it's only fair to make the defense play D a little longer.

+1 Tiger

It's a horrible idea for the defenders to return the item themselves, since they can simply play keep away.

This ^

You actually want the defenders to return the item quickly as an attacker because then you don't need to fight all the way to it only to have it return moments before you get there. If the defenders return it then you can safely regroup and pick it up again. it's unlikely that the defenders will be ambushing you at the pickup point.

The worst thing the defenders can do is wait for the attackers to respawn and come all the way back into the firefirefight before they return it. Now you've wasted all the time respawning, getting back to where you died only to have to turn around and go all the way back to the pickup point again.

It's a slightly risky strategy on the defence side but if they pull it off it is horrible. Of course if they couldn't return it at all it suddenly becomes a massive advantage to the attackers. And self-returning is only going to split the attacking team up as half try fight to where it is and the other half run to the spawn point because they don't think they have the time to get to it.

Yeah that might work. or atleast make the time to return a bit longer 'same for engineers disarming hacks and bombs it should take them a bit longer than 5 seconds.

Obviously this is a complex situation

Nah. It's easy: If I'm defending then the package should return by itself every 5 seconds (whether being carried or not).
If I'm attacking then the package should move towards the hand-in and hand itself in (whether carried or not).
Solved

Actually, that is exactly what was happening to us last night. Couldn't even re-group because of it. I understand what you're saying though. Your point holds true vs bots, but against some decent players, it's harder than you make it sound.

My team was constantly being split up and spawning. If the carrier went down, forget, I don't care how close you are, they are returning it. Then you fight all the way back to the item spawn, only to lose a few players just trying to grab it again. Rinse and repeat. I'd much rather fight for it, carry it, and if it gets dropped, it's left there for us to go back.

If I'm supporting the carrier and he goes down, they return it, now I'm stuck in BFE. I could try and fight my way back out to get the item again. or stay and try to clear a path. Normally I'll stay. But either way it becomes a frustrating and boring part of the match going back and forth. I wish it worked like the escort objectives, when the hostage gets downed he stays there and his team has to fight towards him again, and defense has to set up to defend that. Think the same principal could make this objective more fun.

Hmm :/
Sounds like you were outmatched. When I've been defending against an evenly matched team I found that we were having to constantly defend the hand-in point and didn't have time to rush off to the respawn point to ambush them.

I like that the carry objective works so differently to the escort objective though. It adds more variety. I still think the answer here is simply to increase the return timer. If it's warrented.

I haven't seen anything wrong with this system yet. I've played both sides, and it seems rather balanced to me. If someone takes the package I follow them. If they drop it I pick it up by just walking over it and running. The defending team has to interact with the package to return it.
Then again I haven't been able to play against human players... so my experience may be moot in this sense. Perhaps a simple addition of time to the return interaction would balance things more? It's supposed to be like CTF, and it's supposed to be hard.... not to mention fair for both teams.

Well I just did CCity a few minutes ago with one human on my team, and 3 humans on the other. I only managed to pick up the objective at the 00:05 mark - thanks to overtime, and me being awesome, I got back to the hand-in without going down once. My teammates put up a heavy fight just a little way ahead of the hand-in, and had just blown the shortcut open before I picked the thing up - everyone on the enemy team camped the shortcut route, while I went the long way around and left caltrops behind me so I would know if I was followed - Sorry, guys!