I played Fallout 3 on my PC and I like the pip-boy.

Clicking between the grand total of three categories (data/inventory/stats I think), and then picking which thing you need from there (quests/maps/radio in data, the various types of equipment and your character sheet) is not that clunky.

At least Fallout 3 (and Oblivion for that matter, though that menu was more complex) has everything streamlined and in the one UI. So many games separate the various menus, which I think is more of a chore. Take Red Dead Redemption, one of my favourite games. On PS3, which is what I got it for, there's the Inventory with the select button, and everything else on start. Maps and quests were lumped in with the game options, and the inventory was on its own, which I found more than a little odd and counter-intuitive.

Why exactly should the world map be on the same screen that lets me adjust the graphics settings and enter multiplayer mode? Things relevant to the character (maps, quests, items, stats) make sense to be in one menu, things relevant to the player (options, multiplayer mode, save/load) should be in another.

Yeah, this is a common pet peeve of mine. I wish developers would take the time to tweak the UI's for their respective platform. As a PC gamer, too often am I annoyed by ported games where the POV is zoomed in too far, the fonts are too large, poorly set up controls, etc. I do recall being annoyed at Fallout 3 for not being able to press the "I" key and be taken into my inventory. Instead I had to flip through a few screens on the Pip Boy first. It's the first RPG I recall playing where that was the case.

Overall, it's a fairly minor point to me, but it does detract from my playing experience. I'm no game developer, but I can't imagine it would take much work for developers to fix these problems.

EDIT: I do mostly like the design of the FO3 Pip Boy though.

Okay i understand the console bashing, lets move on i have a ps3, 360 and a pc, i'm over it i love them all for different reasons. We play games, not consoles! That being said, it is easy to make a macro on pc so you don't need to use the pip boy, at least i did a lot i also macroed some repair stuff too (ended up loading a few saves when unique weapons were accidentally cannibalized too). I don't mind using the pip boy, i can understand how it bothers some people though.

Personally, the UI in Fallout 3 didn't bother me all that much on my PC. Not enough that I felt like I had to get a UI mod for it, at least. But I can see where my fellow PC gamers are coming from. We're talking about one game that's being designed to be played at very contrasting differences. When I'm playing games on my consoles (I own all 3,) I'm sitting a fair distance away. I have a fairly nice "high def" TV - but even so, I'm going to want larger text and such at the distance I'm sitting from it. When I'm at my computer, however, I'm much, much closer to my screen. (Depending on how frantic things are getting, it's not rare for me to be less than a foot away.) I can read much smaller text, just due to the fact that I'm sitting about six feet closer to the screen.

Sure, I suppose resolution comes into this to some degree - but I don't think to the level that it warrants the attention it's been getting in this thread. Fallout 3, on my 360 (or PS3,) on my TV - absolutely has the resolution to handle smaller fonts and still be legible. But if we were to get that small, I bet a lot of people would start having trouble reading things at a comfortable distance. And also keep in mind that console games - while optimized to take advantage of current-gen televisions - also have to be designed for people who are still using decades-old CRTs.

Absolutely, I think it would be nice if Obsidian, in regards to New Vegas, was able to tailor the PC version UI to something a bit more suitable for it's role. But I'm also guessing there's a degree of work that would go into something like that - that in the big picture might just not be worth the effort. :shrug:

Ah... well. I'm over 30, with a family, mostly up-to-date hardware. Money has a way for finding other places to be spent! I'll just stay with my 1080p.

The final product could still be optimsed. I guess the terms clunky and ugly just seem a little strong in this case.

Again, there's nothing wrong with 1080p...it's a good resolution. Your monitor sounds great...the only point I was trying to make is that it's not the end-all resolution, and that consoles, for the most part, either aren't using or can't depend on users' displays running at 1080p. You really have to develop for the lowest common denominator, and there are people out there with consoles connected to CRT TV's from the '80s, so you've got to make your UI usable for those people. Even older PC monitors will do 800x600. SDTV is 480i (and that's being optimistic as far as clarity is concerned...pixel clarity on CRT TVs is terrible). Digital TVs are the best thing to happen to console gaming since wireless controllers.

Besides, we've established that it's not "all about" resolutions.

The differences in UI expectations, I think, have more to do with controls and distance from the screen. I really wish we hadn't gotten hung up on resolutions.

Mmm love dat darnifed UI.

I thought it fit in rather well. The modded examples look really out of place compared to the original UI. It's not all about resolution.

The problem with this is that the majority of the UI is hard-coded and can not be changed via mods. Yes, certain parts of it (such as text size) can, but not most such as the general layout/etc.

Also: 1080p is not low-def for 'lots' of PC gamers. It's 'very slightly lower def' for a vast minority of PC gamers - for the vast majority, it's actually higher resolution. Just because your friends have monster gaming PCs does not mean everyone does.

It isnt that great if you sit a foot away from it like a monitor, but if you sit the appropriate distance it looks perfect... im not sure if your aware of this, but 1080p is the same resolution no matter the size of the tv (monitor).

If you are talking about DarnUI, then I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. DarnUI is pretty much the same style as vanilla, just a smaller front, smaller HUD, and different font. And, even if it seems like something trivial, it can make a huge difference to some people.

Then again, I've seen you hate on mods for no reason, so meh.

Not specifically, no, but a UI that's made for a controller and a screen you sit 30' from is not good for a mouse control scheme and a screen you sit 2-3' from, and vice versa. Whether we're talking about resolution or distance from the screen makes little difference. The fact is that when you can deal with more detail on the screen and use a pointing device you want a different type of UI than you do when you can't see as much detail at once and you're using a controller.


Really? Are you just going out of your way to pick a fight about nothing with somebody? Did you read any of the posts where I clarified what I was saying several times? Did you read the part where I pointed out repeatedly that I didn't say "most PC gamers?" Hundreds, if not thousands of gamers have very large monitors. What would you call that...a few? Gah, never mind. I'm not going to be drawn into a pointless, derailing argument about the way I worded something...amended it even. Sheesh.

I'm okay with the UI as-is. It's not pretty, but it pauses the action and gets the job done without giving me a headache. It can definately be improved upon, of course. But if the AI is the same in New Vegas I won't complain that much, other than to point out that about a year-and-a-half's worth of development time should've been enough to figure out how to improve it.

That's what it sounds like to me, basically, the inventory system is the same as Fallout 3's system, which the writer of the article thinks is not that well designed. Admitably, I would agree that the interface isn't much to look at, but as far as being clunky goes, I think to improve its functionality, at least on the PC version which I intend to play, they'd have to redesign the interface for the PC version. Other than that, I wish just it gave a little more imformation on items, like the damage of individual shots for automatic weapons, which I think we'll see this time anyway, and the accuracy and rate of fire stats for them.

THe pipboy reminds me of the watch UI in goldeneye on the n64... whilst your player was bringing his wrist up to view te screen you could still get shot at.

Well, the thing about UI that bothered me the most in Oblivion and Fallout was: You can sort items by category in your inventory, but not in barter\exchange menu. Fix that, I'll be joyful

If Darn UI comes to New Vegas i will uninstall the game. I don't like modding monopolies on something as infantile as GUI.

as long as we can configure the UI color like in fAllout 3, we should be alright.

Why do I remember being able to sort out items by category in barter menu in both games you mentioned?

Anyways, it would be really nice if the UI and menus were crafted for more PC friendly use. In general, I think the handattached pipboy holding all the stuff from inventory to maps and characters sheet(s) was a bad call. It would even help the was a possibility to quickkey the different "main" tabs in it ("I" for inventory, "M" for map, "C" for character screen, "L" for queslog, etc). The way it is, it's just cumbersome. And now even moreso, if what the guy that attended PAX for hands on told is true. That in HC mode there is a separate tab for every "need". Lots of unneeded clicking and scrolling. Sounds like a small thing... clicking a mouse button, and it is, but in the long run it just gets annoying when you have to constantly check them out.

Because you had a strange dream or your mind made something up? Now launch any of these two and correct what you said

Having to activate the Pip-Boy every time one wants to change weapons is somewhat annoying. It would be great if one could tag a number of weapons through which one could then scroll with the mouse wheel.

But I like the "clunky" part. Fallout is special and should stay that way.

http://ui.darnified.net/wip/F3/barter_menu_default.jpg There is an "Items" tab in the upper left corner with arrows to left and right. Clicking the arrows changes it to to weapons, ammo, apparel, meds, misc and items, sorting the inventory accordingly - and the same thing can be done for the NPCs menu with the arrows around the NPC name in the upper right.

And in Oblivion there are tabs at the bottom of the barter menu for "all", weapons, armor, alchemy and misc.

Is that what you meant by sorting items out by category, or was it something else? I'm starting to feel I completely misunderstood your meaning.... :mellow:

I for one didn't know that the arrows that bracketed the "Items" & the container/vendor's name actually did anything. just thought they were there for looks.

To think I played through the whole darn game once and didn't realize this.

Oh well - it's a good thing you mentioned this now that I'm in the middle of me second playthrough! THANKS! :tops:

I actually don't mind bringing up my pip boy to change a weapon so I hope they don't dramaticly change it from fallout 3.

I really hate the vanilla Oblivion UI, but I don't think the UI from Fallout 3 was all that bad... but sure, I agree that it is clunky, and it could be a lot better.

I wish that they could make an UI that is more optimized for PC use in the PC version of the game. What works good on a console, does not necessarily work that well on a PC.

They should make use of the features of a PC keyboard, and also make the size of the text adjustable.