[Emmi Coolahan]

We have a lot of gorgeous texture work, both finished and in-progress. We have great visual enhancers such as EnB series and Post Processing Injector, and we have some excellent script-based gameplay and interface mods made, thanks to the generosity of some folks willing to apply their programming skills. So in terms of production, I'd say our Skyrim modding community is off to a fantastic start, even despite the delayed release of the Creation Kit.

We seem to be lacking in the other really important piece of a great community though - gracious users. I see a lot of modders getting torn to bits over works in progress. What they need is your support and gratitude, not to be nitpicked to death. Constructive criticism is important, and many modders will be very glad to hear of your preferences regarding what they are making, so that they are not working blind to what the community will like the most. However, if you are not being respectful and polite as you do this, then you are taking away their motivation to continue working and/or share what they've done, and that is the complete opposite of constructive: destructive.

I know this can be a fine line to walk, and I completely understand that modders vary wildly in their sensitivity to critical feedback; however, when you post, you are taking on the responsibility of making sure your words are helpful. Nagging, insulting, or cutting down our modders is not helpful, even (and perhaps especially) from another modder. We also have a large influx of new faces to the ES modding community, and it would be nice if we didn't scare off the new modders while simultaneously implying to the new users that bad manners are acceptable.

The ONLY motivation a modder has to share his or her work is YOUR gratitude and support. They are working hard for no pay to contribute to our gaming experience, and they deserve better care. Show it!

[michael danso]

Amen! A toast to the generosity of others!

[emma sweeney]

We seem to be lacking in the other really important piece of a great community though - gracious users. I see a lot of modders getting torn to bits over works in progress. What they need is your support and gratitude, not to be nitpicked to death.

Yeah, I'd agree. Especially since modding Skyrim without the CK is like trying to translate Egyptian with a telescope through a keyhole.

I've seen a few really great modders quit over the years because people kept being ungrateful trollish sods.

[Aliish Sheldonn]

The biggest issue I've seen, not just in these forums, but also in the Morrowind ones, are people that complain about mods they have no intention of using. It's as if the very presence of a particular mod somehow taints their enjoyment of their game even though they don't use that mod. A particular problem is with advlt mods. If someone wants to walk around in their birthday suit with overlarge assets, I say let them. I don't have to look at if I don't want to so what does it matter to me? More gratitude and support isn't necessarily what's needed, it's for people to step off of their soap boxes complaining about mods they have no intention of downloading and installing.

[le GraiN]

I dunno. With the sheer number of people using Skyrim mods, there are bound to be jerks posting. Best thing to do is ignore them. If your mod is that popular, a little bit of a thick skin is mandatory.

[Alister Scott]

I dunno. With the sheer number of people using Skyrim mods, there are bound to be jerks posting. Best thing to do is ignore them. If your mod is that popular, a little bit of a thick skin is mandatory.

Enough thick skin to take some criticism, and to be able to rationally discern what was said with the intent of being helpful.

But we should not use that subjectivity as an excuse or license to be disrespectful. If you are genuinely wanting to be helpful or show thanks, it will probably come out in your post. If you aren't, well, that will probably come out in your post as well, and it's still on you to judge whether you need to re-word yourself or even post at all.

[cassy]

Enough thick skin to take some criticism, and to be able to rationally discern what was said with the intent of being helpful.

But we should not use that subjectivity as an excuse or license to be disrespectful. If you are genuinely wanting to be helpful or show thanks, it will probably come out in your post. If you aren't, well, that will probably come out in your post as well, and it's still on you to judge whether you need to re-word yourself or even post at all.

Of course. Surprisingly enough, some may disagree, the TES modding community is one of the best and most helpful/respectful ones out there, IMO.

[Penny Flame]

Of course. Surprisingly enough, some may disagree, the TES modding community is one of the best and most helpful/respectful ones out there, IMO.

Absolutely. It's almost worth the trolling to see the community rally against the troll.

[Sophh]

people that complain about mods they have no intention of using. It's as if the very presence of a particular mod somehow taints their enjoyment of their game even though they don't use that mod.

This is probably the attitude that bothers me most about mod criticism. And, as you say, it seems to be directed mostly toward so-called 'advlt' mods. There seems to be a kind of antibody reaction directed against anything that is perceived as risqué. Worse, some of the loudest critics, it seems to me, do not even use mods at all, much less that type of mod.

If you are genuinely wanting to be helpful or show thanks, it will probably come out in your post. If you aren't, well, that will probably come out in your post as well

Back in the Morrowind days someone came up with a nice formula for posting criticism. Start a post with a positive comment. Then write your critique. Finally, end your post with another positive comment. I've used this as a template for many of my posts over the years. I use this formula particularly when addressing a modder I don't know or who doesn't know me.

Many of us tend to think of the modding forums as a place where more mature people congregate. But many modders are surprisingly young ( I was shocked when I discovered, years ago, that a popular Morrowind modder, m6n6m6, was only 12 years old). These younger modders may not yet have developed the thick skins that Zanderat speaks of. Some of them may be venturing out into the internet for the first time. Their feelings could get hurt easily. That may not seem like a big deal to some folks, but I was an overly-sensitive person when I was young myself and I know how much a stray word can hurt, even if the speaker didn't mean to hurt.

[Lil Miss]

I very much agree. The sheer egregiousness of some of the ingratitude shown here and elsewhere can be appalling.

[^~LIL B0NE5~^]

I can only hope that after 6 months many of the trolls, and obnoxious users leave or get chased away.

Im sure with the amount of veterns around here, we should be able to rally together against these new users who are being disrespectful and help stand up for the modders.

[Kara Payne]

Of course. Surprisingly enough, some may disagree, the TES modding community is one of the best and most helpful/respectful ones out there, IMO.

Amen. Let's show the new folks by example what we're really about, so we can preserve this.

[dean Cutler]

Amen. Let's show the new folks by example what we're really about, so we can preserve this.

I wouldn't worry about it being preserved. Eventually the next shiny new thing will come along and most of the rudeness will leave with it. Give it time and ignore the rude, insensitive, or just plain mean comments and the people that enjoy making them will go away once they see that they no longer have an audience.

[Hussnein Amin]

Among modders(-to-be) there is another bad habit: Asking for help, and then ignoring the answers; at best they're never heard from again, at worst they open a new thread asking the same question again instead of checking back if something wasn't quite clear. If someone took the time to research or even try out stuff for you, or wrote that step-by-step guide you requested, then at least give a "Thx" as feedback. Utter silence isn't a big motivatior to take the time and answer the next question (no matter who actually asks it).

[Enie van Bied]

Among modders(-to-be) there is another bad habit: Asking for help, and then ignoring the answers; at best they're never heard from again, at worst they open a new thread asking the same question again instead of checking back if something wasn't quite clear. If someone took the time to research or even try out stuff for you, or wrote that step-by-step guide you requested, then at least give a "Thx" as feedback. Utter silence isn't a big motivatior to take the time and answer the next question (no matter who actually asks it).

My biggest problem so far is asking for help, and no one actually knows the answer. This thread is appreciated; I started modding just a week after skyrim was released and I've had a great time. I'd have to say the comments I've gotten have generally been remarkably positive, too. The most frustration I get is when I have requests for features I can't honestly do while working in hexadecimal. I can't blame them, though, because they've no idea what it's like.

I can generally see much of the critiques in play around here, however, including what I quoted above. Luckily, those types of people that are most vocal for help generally tend to be the ones most prone to giving up - I say luckily, but I really mean that it's lucky for them; modding takes time and effort, and asking for help on every little bit means that modding is really not for them - I don't really mean that I want them to give up, though. It also does take away the stress from the community, too. There's a lot of people out preparing for mods with little idea of what type of work they're getting themselves into - especially, a lot that are preparing for the CK, that I assume think it's some magical program that can make their ideas come true. We'll see a lot of storming from the not-so-dedicated half of the modders to be when they realize that's not quite true.

Anyways, rambling. Thanks to the other modders that have given me input in my work. The community is great here, and like I said, I've gotten great replies to much of my work. It's nice to see.

[Tessa Mullins]

I think my wife summed it up rather succinctly:

The four golden rules of mods:

1) You want it, you make it.
2) You don't like it, don't play it.
3) If you make it and you like it, don't listen to anyone else.
4) If you ask for criticism, expect to get it.

[Nathan Barker]

Your wife is a very wise woman.

[Racheal Robertson]

Well, Community is a pretty good show... I guess you're right.