TtI had an earlier version of Deadly Combat (v1.40) loaded with PISE, and got weird AI behavior in Giants. When I used ranged attacks they would run behind boulders for cover and not peak their heads out. I could flnk them and they wouldnt adjust their hiding spot. It was strange that they sought shelter from RDPS when they could have easily smashed me in on hit and were nearly in melee range. The strange behavior went away when I removed DC, but I really miss DC alot. So much so that I am thinking of either dropping PISE or just avoiding Giants altogether.

That's a weird bug

But there should be no reason for you to have to choose between the mods really, next time just report it immediately when you see it and I can try to figure out where the conflict is and either fix it myself or tell pluto if I find something through which he could fix it in his mod

Now first of all, I'd advise you to try with the latest version (2.30) and see if the bug still occurs. Throughout all those new versions I've released, maybe it somehow got fixed by magic already Can't tell for sure coz I don't know what would cause the bug.

And if it still occurs, you could also try running the ''DeadlyCombat_NoAttackDistance.esp'' file together with the main .esp and PISE. I'm not sure but I think attack distance changes have been reported to be causing weird behaviour before.

And make sure to post back here if you know more

I uninstalled PISE and ran the latest version of DC to test it and got the same weird behaviors from giants as before. Oddly the mammoths were insanely more aggressive chasing me across the map. And the giants seemed to be similarly aggressive towards bunnies at least, lol. But they still ran away 90% of the time and even tried to climb rocks to get away from my level 14 warrior.

I added the deadlycombat_noattackdistance.esp and that solved the issue perfectly, thank you

Excellent mod, btw. It makes combat so much more interactive... your idea to stagger a player when they run out of stamina is brilliant. I can't wait to see where it's going.

mm...minor suggestion but, if changing distance is prone to cause bugs, can you perhaps make 'NoAttackDistance' the default option and, for those who want it, make an .esp with reduced melee distance?

I did find some issues with blocking arrows. I can't seem to get the timing right. Either I'm not blocking any damage (even with Deflect Arrows perk) or I'm getting massive Stamina drains. Every other aspect of combat is 1000% better however.

Suggestion: Turtling against arrows should not be penalized. Historically this was how they handled archers.

I like that turtling isn't 100% effective even with the deflect arrows perk, but at the moment it seems only 30% effective. That is roughly my block skill, so that might have something to it. Assuming that is true, I would be ok with kind of mechanic as long as the deflect arrows perk upped your percentage chance to avoid arrow damage.

Historically, turtling only worked when marching in a special formation within a tight and well coordinated phalanx of shielded warriors. Solo shield men were still pretty vulnerable.

Actually I do agree with wiz, there shouldn't be a timed blocking penalty on blocking arrows. That still doesn't make a single man with a shield entirely effective though, because if the arrow doesn't hit your shield it won't count as a block anyway. I think that is also the 30% effectiveness you're seeing Ziljan, the Deflect Arrows perk doesn't guarantuee blocking arrows in the first place.

@tiny lampe about the attack distance.. not sure, because it doesn't seem to cause any bugs by itself. It only seems to cause bugs in combination with other mods like PISE. I'll at least add a warning about this to the readme though.

Tower shields.
Maybe have the effectiveness of blocking arrows directly linked to how much armor rating the shield has (after your skills are applied).

Zijan did say that even after uninstalling PISE he got the same bug...that's why I suggested that non-vanilla attack distance should be an option and not the default. No big deal though, since anybody experiencing the problem can solve it by adding the extra .esp.

On another note, timed blocking looks very tempting! I shall try it myself.

How well does this mod work for dual wielding characters now? I read the first couple of posts in the thread and I wasn't too impressed.

It's bloody awesome. Combined with the stagger effect on attack and the AI changes, fights are exhilerating and engaging. Defense and Offense each have a different flavor and it so fun to switch it up an see how skilled enemies react. This mod mixes very well with PISE, and the behaviors seem pretty realistic and challenging so far now that the distance esp file is set.

Don't know of any of you have tried the new dual wield parry mod that just got released. I'm excited to see how and if it all works together.

Any plans for tweaking magic in this? Timed blocking on ward spells would be fantastic.

Yesterday I've released a dual wield parrying mod, combined with that one this mod should also work really well for dual wielding. The dual wield parrying mod itself is still in very early stages though and might need some improvement, but once that one works more user-friendly there should be no more problems for dual wielders


Maybe later. Right now my main priority is to perfect the dual wield parrying mod though, because I've always wanted to play a dual wield character myself but never could because I hate having no defensive abilities

any idea why I can't stagger the enemies at all while I get staggered all the time by them?

I'm using this alongside with duke patrick's combat tweaks btw, does it conflict with deadly combat?

Edit : yep, it conflicts.. I deactivated duke patrick's mod and deadly combat works perfectly

Does this work with Duke Patricks mod?

no, they are not compatible

Deadly Combat is the best combat mod for my tastes, so big thank you Borgut for making this mod.
Looking forward to see it develop even further.

Hmm that's weird.. I mean, sure, they are both combat mods so I would expect conflicts like only the mod which loads last of the 2 will change game settings which both are trying to change. But staggering enemies happens through a perk specific to this mod which is automatically added to the player, so I wouldn't expect that part of the mod to conflict with Duke Patrick's.

This mod looks very tempting. And conflicts with PISE?

I just ran PISE > Duke Patricks > Deadly Combat (in that order) and I didn't have issues recoiling people with normal attacks. I was using a 2H weapon though so maybe DPs mod checks damage for recoil? Anyway, the AI was a bit muddied playing with all three and too predictable, probably from excessive percentage weighting and contradictory overlapping of particular AI behaviors. I recommend to go with one or the other. They are both really good, but at the moment I prefer Deadly Combat for its interactiveness.

@ DarNoor, no conflicts with PISE that I can tell. Just make sure you load the optional DeadlyCombat_NoAttackDistance.esp file. Otherwise you might get some strange AI behavior from giants and mammoths.

Thanks Ziljan.

Np, but really it's these brilliant and hard working modders that deserve the thanks, for sharing the fruit of the labor with us. Play testing is more fun than work, and doesn't require any special talent other than the ability to whine, hopefully in a coherent and helpful manner.

Like this mod a lot. Adds much more depth to the game and a lot more required management in the middle of battles. However, something needs to be changed, and that is how magic works with staggering. Unless I'm doing something wrong, it's ridiculous going against someone with a continuous spell like flames and not being able to do anything except in really brief gaps in the battle. Spells like that should be a support tool, not an all-out attack method, and certainly not as stupidly powerful as they are at the moment. I'm gonna turn off the stagger spam and deal with it but I actually like the stagger spam with melee weapons, but not with magic.

Good job anyhow.

Hmm are you using the latest version? Spells should have only a somewhat small chance to do a full stagger, and a bigger chance to do a ''light'' stagger where your camera shakes but you can still move and attack etc.

I've been thinking about this though... on one hand, the player should react to spells as realistically as he should also react to being hit by weapons. And mages should be able to keep you away because IF you get near them, you can probably kill them immediately, especially since you can interrupt their spells as well with staggering. But on the other hand, constant effects like those flamethrowers and cloak spells should be less annoying.

Maybe it's a good idea if I make spells NOT stagger the player if he's sprinting? That way you do have an option to get near them, but it takes effort and stamina and you can only focus on protecting yourself against one enemy at a time.