Dear bethesda.. about the engine : V - Skyrim

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:39 pm

Can someone please point out where on the box it says "Gamebryo"?

In an interview, it was said that they have looked at other engines, but decided that their engine was best for their needs. No other engine can handle what they need at the scale they do. Which is perfectly fine. Its a system they are used to and able to control and set up how they want, and modders are accustomed to it as well. The engine has been changed a [censored] ton since fist using it with morrowind, and it may not be anywhere near crytek ot unreal, it does its job rather well.

Buy the license, change the name, modify it a bit, call it "brand new", and people actually believe it's brand new.

Calling it "heavily modified" is already saving face for Bethesda.

But then, Creation(or Gamebryo) Engine can still accommodate 2011's needs, barely. As for the next Bethesda single player game, however, that remains to be seen.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:18 pm

Stop living in the past.

I will never stop.

PS:
You wouldn't want real hair and fur that blows in the wind rather then plastic with hair lines painted on?

No I want fun gameplay,mechenics,etc.. What's the point of state-of-the-art graphics if the gameplay is so dull that you stop after 2 hours (total gameplay) and never touch the game again? Most (if not all) games nowadays focus on graphics and not on gameplay.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:17 pm

I will never stop.

No I want fun gameplay,mechenics,etc.. What's the point of state-of-the-art graphics if the gameplay is so dull that you stop after 2 hours (total gameplay) and never touch the game again? Most (if not all) games nowadays focus on graphics and not on gameplay.

2 hours? Hmmm weird I have 400 and counting...

....along with a bunch of other players. The game is great. Gameplay is great. Sure there's some bugs. But speak for yourself please.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:53 pm

2 hours? Hmmm weird I have 400 and counting... :wink:

....along with a bunch of other players. The game is great. Gameplay is great. Sure there's some bugs. But speak for yourself please.

I wasn't talking about Skyrim.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:58 pm

I will never stop.

No I want fun gameplay,mechenics,etc.. What's the point of state-of-the-art graphics if the gameplay is so dull that you stop after 2 hours (total gameplay) and never touch the game again? Most (if not all) games nowadays focus on graphics and not on gameplay.

Tbh most of the games today have neither good graphics nor gameplay.

However,
Having good graphics =! Gameplay has to be dull

EVE Online, despite being an online game, has both great graphics and gameplay. The character model(from face to body to limbs) is fully adjustable, not using some sliders with predefined values, but using mouse in a 3D environment like with those 3D softwares.
And guess what, hair in the game can be set to have full physics, interacting with character movements, clothes(also have physics) and body features(e.g. Hair will move differently with varying briast sizes).

And yet, the game still has an easy-to-learn, complex(with depth) and immersive gameplay.

Adding these graphics features is not as hard as many people think. It's mostly a matter of whether the developer wants to do it or not.
The argument of saying people with old machines can't enjoy the game is invalid as well. I can enjoy all the eye candies with my mediocre study computer below in EVE Online. But I can also play it with my gaming machine that's more than 4 years old and with a [censored]y graphics card that can easily went up to 100 degree celsius.

Having great maximum graphics = people with good computers can enjoy 100 marks graphics; people with old computers can enjoy 60 marks graphics.
Having [censored]y maximum graphics = people with good and old computers both have to suffer 60(or less) marks graphics. True communism.

IMO, the only reason why Bethesda is reluctant to add better graphics is due to console players. Better graphics on PC => relatively worse graphics on consoles => jelly console players => less units sold(while in actual fact PC sales contribute more profit than Xbox sales in the case of Skyrim)

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:08 pm

Tbh most of the games today have neither good graphics nor gameplay.

However,
Having good graphics =! Gameplay has to be dull

EVE Online, despite being an online game, has both great graphics and gameplay. The character model(from face to body to limbs) is fully adjustable, not using some sliders with predefined values, but using mouse in a 3D environment like with those 3D softwares.
And guess what, hair in the game can be set to have full physics, interacting with character movements, clothes(also have physics) and body features(e.g. Hair will move differently with varying briast sizes).

And yet, the game still has an easy-to-learn, complex(with depth) and immersive gameplay.

Adding these graphics features is not as hard as many people think. It's mostly a matter of whether the developer wants to do it or not.
The argument of saying people with old machines can't enjoy the game is invalid as well. I can enjoy all the eye candies with my mediocre study computer below in EVE Online. But I can also play it with my gaming machine that's more than 4 years old and with a [censored]y graphics card that can easily went up to 100 degree celsius.

Having great maximum graphics = people with good computers can enjoy 100 marks graphics; people with old computers can enjoy 60 marks graphics.
Having [censored]y maximum graphics = people with good and old computers both have to suffer 60(or less) marks graphics. True communism.

IMO, the only reason why Bethesda is reluctant to add better graphics is due to console players. Better graphics on PC => relatively worse graphics on consoles => jelly console players => less units sold(while in actual fact PC sales contribute more profit than Xbox sales in the case of Skyrim)

I don't play EVE Online or any MMOs. I've never heard of jelly with console players taste or did you mean the brand? :confused:

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:19 pm

I don't play EVE Online or any MMOs. I've never heard of jelly with console players taste or did you mean the brand? :confused:

Oh sorry, I thought there are so few trolls nowadays that I won't be seeing one. Guess I'm wrong. Really, it's my bad. Don't mind me please.

Have fun enjoying that deer in your cave. Good day.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:21 pm

I don't play EVE Online or any MMOs. I've never heard of jelly with console players taste or did you mean the brand? :confused:

Jealous console players.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:08 pm

I'd wager that most people don't grasp the impossibility of loading an entire big world all at once, on any system, while maintaining any semblance of real-time performance. That's where levels of detail and streaming come in. Are you saying that the Beth engine is limited even in light of that?

Well that is a very good point. Could the engine be fixed or does it absolutely need to be replaced.

Bethesda needs to figure out if the engine can be improved or needs to be scrapped.

Well bethesda could always do a break the engine week. Crank up the graphics adding every possible feature and stuff a few zones with a huge volumes of content until the engine breaks and then see if the programmers can make it work and audit every part of the engine to see what code is slowing it down and rewrite that.. That would give them head room.

The engine needs 64 bit, and not just for memory, but for it's ability to map files as memory and handle memory better. You can optimize code also to use less cycles by taking advantage of the wide registers and extra registers.

They need tessellation. Dump all that popping from the static LOD. It can improve work flow as you don't need to make all those models, it simply scales one. scaling is dynamic and can be based on graphics load. That and the improved quality it brings to models.

Endless City Tessellation Demo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQQpCd_vvGU#t=2m10s

people are saying I have an Nvidia bias, so here is AMD's answer to Nvidia's endless city demo

AMD's tessellation and GPU physics demo to show off their tech.

HK2207 Mecha Rampage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NjNHLxuCBM

:biggrin:

So you can't complain that I don't show off AMD tech.. :biggrin:

Or can you? lol

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:38 pm

Fix the bugs with Gamebryo and all will be well, it does not have to look the very best to be a good engine.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:45 pm

THIS!
If Bethesda adds all of that then AMD users would be left out. Also I think the current engine is fine they just need to fix the bugs. I hope Bethesda focuses more on important things such as gameplay and less on graphics in the future.

As an AMD user I already feel left out while trying to play Batman: AA with the PhysX thingy on. It works somewhat with my CPU doing some of the extra work but in busy areas I get an unintended slow-motion effect. I'm starting to regret choosing AMD a little now. If this CUDA thing catches on then I'll be looking for a new upgrade as those previously posted videos were gorgeous.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:54 pm

The engine can't be fixed that's why they said they would create a whole new engine for this game. However, they didn't, probably because it would be too expensive.

There isn't any real competition for the Gamebryo engine, there is no other game with a world this big where you can truly free roam, virtually without loading times.

Best option would be to open source the engine and let users fix it, like the community already did with the early PC optimization patches, 4GB patch, heap replacer for Oblivion, etc.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:20 am

Some new Demo for unreal engine 4 for people to check out.
Elemental Demo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD9CPqSKjTU
Development Walkthrough
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOvfn1p92_8

Square Enix
Agnis Philosophy Real Time Tech Demo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv4Boq4HLKU

Luminous Engine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9xhFpuIMX4

Bethesda needs to step its game up... That is the point of this thread...

An explanation of subsurface scattering
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss8Dr1WidjY