-- Delte's Thread of IMMERSION Mods -- : V - Skyrim

» Sat May 19, 2012 7:51 pm

<----------- Really looking forward to a hunger/sleep mod as well. All this awesome food and drink in Skyrim that needs more purpose! Bedrolls are great too, can't wait.

» Sat May 19, 2012 9:33 am

@wollibeebee:
With the new "immortal mode", which can be triggered via "tim" in the console, I expect this sort of mod will be much easier to create in Skyrim than it ever was in previous games. I look forward to seeing what people come up with in this regard, as I think mods that remove incentives to load earlier saves are great for immersion.

Cipscis

» Sat May 19, 2012 4:20 pm

how about... instead of dying... you become unconscious and wake up the next day half healed with your weapons laying about the floor, etc etc.

not dying is more Role-play friendly than dying and reloading all the time, to me atleast.

i had a mod for Morrownid that when you died it dropped you as a ghost, naked in the middle of Red Mountain and made you go find your body again, which i kind of liked. there was a much better mod for Oblivion (with Shivering Isles) where once you became Sheogorath if you died you woke up in some crazy dark plane of Oblivion and had to find a door out, which worked and felt great too.

i don't like DYING in games like this just because of how trivially it's handled. there's absolutely no repercussions for getting killed; you just die and reload. i'd rather it be handled more like how the prison works - if you're killed by people you're captured and locked up. like, for bandits you're locked up in a cage and have to break out, for vampires you might wake up with early-onset vampirism or something. maybe if you're killed by creatures you wake up in the nearest temple with half your [censored] missing and you can go back and find it where your body was if you want. there'd be a skill progression reset for all of these, too, just like prison.

before Skyrim came out i was also toying around with the concept also of restricting saves to "save points" essentially, like in RDR - you'd have to save at a camp or an inn or something, you couldn't just quicksave every five minutes. the only real problem with a system like this is that i know a lot of people quicksave reflexively less because they're worried about dying but more because they're worried about crashing, but i haven't encountered any lockups with Skyrim at all since i've been playing so i don't know.

» Sat May 19, 2012 9:19 pm

A pet cat that wanders around your house.

YES! Someone make this happen!

how about... instead of dying... you become unconscious and wake up the next day half healed with your weapons laying about the floor, etc etc.not dying is more Role-play friendly than dying and reloading all the time, to me atleast.

@wollibeebee:With the new "immortal mode", which can be triggered via "tim" in the console, I expect this sort of mod will be much easier to create in Skyrim than it ever was in previous games. I look forward to seeing what people come up with in this regard, as I think mods that remove incentives to load earlier saves are great for immersion.Cipscis

I would definitely love something like this. like @might be a couch said, un-trivializing death would add so much depth. That's actually what I hated the most about TES games, they're so reliant on saving every 5 min. I didn't even know about those mods for MW and OB until now, and seeing proof that it can already be done partially with the "tim" command is very promising.
About the save points however, only reason I wouldn't want that is, as has already been said, due to crashing. (Although this has definitely been the most stable TES release I've experienced [only crashes have been faulty mod installations], but that could just be due to the LAA patch.) :rolleyes:

In any case, definitely will keep a close eye on this thread, I love me some immersion. :obliviongate:

» Sat May 19, 2012 3:51 pm

More info on the Companions...I played a fantastic side-quest set in Hillgrund's Tomb. Golldir, an NPC, spoke to me and said that he knew of a pressure plate that set off a trap.

When we got to the trap, Golldir walked right over it but did not spring the trap. My companion, Lydia, walked over it and DID spring it.

So....that tells me right there that there must be a way to make an NPC/Companion not spring traps while still allowing other NPCs and monsters to spring them.

If I were a modder, that's where I'd start looking--how this was done.

» Sat May 19, 2012 3:46 pm

Educate me. I'm learning the shouts. I've got one with all three words. I seem to remember, listening to the Greybeards the first time out, that the RMB has t be pushed along with the Shout key to get the second word. I've got the Shout bound to a thumb button on my mouse. When I want to use both words, I just squeeze the thumb and the RMB at the same time.

When I went back to the Greybeards after obtaining the horn, I was given a third word, but there was no instruction on how to use it. Which key adds in that third word, making your Shout the powerful?

» Sat May 19, 2012 6:28 pm

There's a perk (sneak, I believe) that allows you to no longer set off pressure plates. From your story, I expect it's possible to extend this ability to NPCs.

I was under the impression that holding down the "shout" key longer was what made your character use more words for a shout. Have you tried that?

Cipscis

» Sat May 19, 2012 3:56 pm

I was under the impression that holding down the "shout" key longer was what made your character use more words for a shout. Have you tried that?

I saw that in the book, but I defnitely get a bigger boom when I use the RMB. And, I got a tool tip to the effect when the greybeard trainer gave me some new words the first time out. Maybe it's a patch thing?

Totally different questions...

How is the game altered when a different difficulty setting is chosen?

And...in the graphical menu, what does the Light Distance slider control?

» Sat May 19, 2012 6:45 pm

There's a perk (sneak, I believe) that allows you to no longer set off pressure plates. From your story, I expect it's possible to extend this ability to NPCs.

So, a script that allows you to point at a trap and "mark" it, akin to a dialogue box? Once marked, the companion is given that perk?

» Sat May 19, 2012 8:05 pm

If it's anything like Oblivion, and I expect it is, then the difficulty slider scales damage dealt to and from the player. I think that, at the maximum difficulty, the player is dealt 6x the default damage, and deals out 1/6x the default.

I'm pretty confident that the Light Distance slider controls the distance at which "light" objects become visible.

Cipscis

EDIT:

The vanilla perk works as an "all or nothing" thing, but with the right scripting it should be possible to set it up like you've described.

Cipscis

» Sat May 19, 2012 5:49 pm

I plan on learning the CK so I can do this mod:

Hypothermia - Makes swimming in Skyrim more realistic! The water is COLD! Really cold! As in, you can get hypothermia if you stay in it too long!

Spoiler

1) detect PC swimming
..A) disallow Waiting while swimming
..B ) set HypothermiaSafe timer to current PC Stamina
....1) HypothermiaSafe timer is how long PC can stay in the water (in seconds) before Hypothermia Effect begins
2) Hypothermia Effect
..A) Can be resisted (Frost Resistance, not Magic Resistance, of course!)
....1) Possibly add resistance amount to HypothermiaSafe timer
......a) Nords automatically can swim longer in the cold stuff!
..B ) Stage A: You're getting cold!
....1) start HypothermiaFreeze (timer)
......a) counts how long PC is under the effects of Hypothermia
....2) Damage stamina 5 points per second until it reaches 0
....3) Stamina does not regenerate once Stage B begins
......a) can be replaced magically or with food/drink
........1) drinking spirits helps you resist the cold!
..C) Stage B: You're f-f-f-freez-z-z-zing!!!!!
....1) When PC Stamina reaches 0
......a) Damage Health 5 points per second until:
........1) PC is dead
........2) PC gets out of the water
......b ) Burden 50 points
........1) to simulate sluggish responses
..D) Stage C: You're dying! Help!
....1) When PC Health <25% max (due to Hypothermia):
......a) Damage Magicka 5 points per second
........1) This is in addition to the Stage B Damage Health effect
......b ) Burden 100 points
........1) This is in addition to the Stage B Burden effect
......c) <>
3) Out of the water
..A) reverse HypothermiaFreeze timer
....1) "You start to warm up a little."
....2) When it reaches 0 (PC has been out of the water as long as the Hypothermia Effect was active)
......a) remove Burden effects
......b ) allow Stamina regeneration
......c) "You feel warm again!"
....3) if PC re-enters swim mode and HypothermiaFreeze timer has not finished counting
......a) HypothermiaFreeze timer starts counting back up
......b ) PC is automatically at Stage B
........1) if PC Health is <25% max, PC may go straight to Stage C
4) Warmth
..A) New low-level spell/potion/scroll
..B ) Allows PC to swim in cold water
....1) if taken before Hypothermia sets in:
......a) stop HypothermiaSafe timer
....2) if taken after Hypothermia has set in:
......a) stop Hypothermia Effect
......b ) reverse HypothermiaFreeze timer
..C) additional Warmth effect
....1) set HypothermiaSafe timer to 300
....2) restart HypothermiaSafe timer

» Sat May 19, 2012 12:37 pm

i had a mod for Morrownid that when you died it dropped you as a ghost, naked in the middle of Red Mountain and made you go find your body again, which i kind of liked. there was a much better mod for Oblivion (with Shivering Isles) where once you became Sheogorath if you died you woke up in some crazy dark plane of Oblivion and had to find a door out, which worked and felt great too.

fliggerty's, i believe. pretty cool mod.

i hope some one takes up the whole "can't die" stuff, it'd make the game a lot funner.

» Sat May 19, 2012 6:46 pm

I would LOVE an alternative to the current death system! It always really annoys me when my character dies and i have to re-load, because it really does break the immersion thing.

My personal thing is more of a graphics thing, and I dont know if it would even be possible, but...bumpmapping the textures in the game. So trees aren't just cylinders with textures, but actually have visible dips and dents and whatnot. Same for anything that has a texture in the game, i just feel that while it would probably be very graphically demanding it could also make the game look a great deal more realistic, especially at close range. You could probably have a fade-out for it at a distance, as well.

» Sat May 19, 2012 8:39 pm

How about fixing the odd item ownership system. When npcs like you, they let you take stuff from their place for free. It might make sense for some specific npcs to let you take food items ( but not for an innkeeper) but that should be all...uh...now I can enter a shop or an inn, purchase a small item and reimburse myself by taking their purses and multiple other items which I can also resell to them immediately.

» Sat May 19, 2012 9:37 am

I remember this thread from Oblivion, thanks for starting it up again! :woot:

Here's my wishlist so far:

Darker Dungeons and Darker Nights
I had this in oblivion. Need to have a better torch mod to work with this. Also, how about merchants selling torches? They were all over the place in oblivion, but I'm having a harder time keeping them stocked in Skyrim.

Item Weight Recalculation and Encumbrance Overhaul
I think the encumbrance penalty should be gradual and more severe. I'm moving around at full speed, then pick up one chicken briast and I can't run? On top of that, encumbrance is too high, we shouldn't carry 2 sets of armor, five swords and 2 bows.

Steeper Bounty Penalties
A 25 gold bounty is not a deterrence to make anyone stop crime. It should be much higher.

Skooma Effects
I wanted to play a skooma addicted petty thief, but they removed the withdrawal symptoms.

Alternative to Lockpicking
Bashing locks or opening them magically. Also, the degree of lock picking difficulty needs to be increased to the point where a non-trained character should not be able to open an expert lock.

Armor Penalties Overhaul
You should never be able to sneak without a penalty in heavy armor! You should never be able to cast spells as effectively in heavy armor as in robes. I'm really disappointed that Bethesda made this change.

This is one mod that I'm using that I don't see much attention on: http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=952 It could be expanded, but setting it on the highest difficulty often means you're going to die if you mistep. Good mod.

» Sat May 19, 2012 3:45 pm

Any kind of level-scaling.

Nothing in a realistic world should depend on your level unless it has [censored] good reason.

I mean loot shouldnt scale to your level,

Dungeons shouldnt scale to your level,

Areas should not scale,

Merchant items,

What your enemy wears.

NOTHING.

Edit: I haven't played enough to sense or know if anything scales or doesn't, just saying a statement,,.

» Sat May 19, 2012 6:37 pm

I plan on learning the CK so I can do this mod:

Hypothermia - Makes swimming in Skyrim more realistic! The water is COLD! Really cold! As in, you can get hypothermia if you stay in it too long!

Spoiler

1) detect PC swimming
..A) disallow Waiting while swimming
..B ) set HypothermiaSafe timer to current PC Stamina
....1) HypothermiaSafe timer is how long PC can stay in the water (in seconds) before Hypothermia Effect begins
2) Hypothermia Effect
..A) Can be resisted (Frost Resistance, not Magic Resistance, of course!)
....1) Possibly add resistance amount to HypothermiaSafe timer
......a) Nords automatically can swim longer in the cold stuff!
..B ) Stage A: You're getting cold!
....1) start HypothermiaFreeze (timer)
......a) counts how long PC is under the effects of Hypothermia
....2) Damage stamina 5 points per second until it reaches 0
....3) Stamina does not regenerate once Stage B begins
......a) can be replaced magically or with food/drink
........1) drinking spirits helps you resist the cold!
..C) Stage B: You're f-f-f-freez-z-z-zing!!!!!
....1) When PC Stamina reaches 0
......a) Damage Health 5 points per second until:
........1) PC is dead
........2) PC gets out of the water
......b ) Burden 50 points
........1) to simulate sluggish responses
..D) Stage C: You're dying! Help!
....1) When PC Health <25% max (due to Hypothermia):
......a) Damage Magicka 5 points per second
........1) This is in addition to the Stage B Damage Health effect
......b ) Burden 100 points
........1) This is in addition to the Stage B Burden effect
......c) <>
3) Out of the water
..A) reverse HypothermiaFreeze timer
....1) "You start to warm up a little."
....2) When it reaches 0 (PC has been out of the water as long as the Hypothermia Effect was active)
......a) remove Burden effects
......b ) allow Stamina regeneration
......c) "You feel warm again!"
....3) if PC re-enters swim mode and HypothermiaFreeze timer has not finished counting
......a) HypothermiaFreeze timer starts counting back up
......b ) PC is automatically at Stage B
........1) if PC Health is <25% max, PC may go straight to Stage C
4) Warmth
..A) New low-level spell/potion/scroll
..B ) Allows PC to swim in cold water
....1) if taken before Hypothermia sets in:
......a) stop HypothermiaSafe timer
....2) if taken after Hypothermia has set in:
......a) stop Hypothermia Effect
......b ) reverse HypothermiaFreeze timer
..C) additional Warmth effect
....1) set HypothermiaSafe timer to 300
....2) restart HypothermiaSafe timer

That approach may have a bug: someone with 100% frost resistance and base stamina might die from exposure faster than someone with high stamina and no frost resistance (or maybe even a frost vulnerability?) unless cold effects are also scaled by resistance/vulnerability?

i had a mod for Morrownid that when you died it dropped you as a ghost, naked in the middle of Red Mountain and made you go find your body again, which i kind of liked. there was a much better mod for Oblivion (with Shivering Isles) where once you became Sheogorath if you died you woke up in some crazy dark plane of Oblivion and had to find a door out, which worked and felt great too.

i don't like DYING in games like this just because of how trivially it's handled. there's absolutely no repercussions for getting killed; you just die and reload. i'd rather it be handled more like how the prison works - if you're killed by people you're captured and locked up. like, for bandits you're locked up in a cage and have to break out, for vampires you might wake up with early-onset vampirism or something. maybe if you're killed by creatures you wake up in the nearest temple with half your [censored] missing and you can go back and find it where your body was if you want. there'd be a skill progression reset for all of these, too, just like prison.

Note that it seems like you can avoid the skill progression reset if you go to prison and escape without serving your time. I am pretty sure that it's the wait for release part that resets your skill progression. Note also that you can escape even after you break your lockpick. Note also that escaping seems to increase your bounty.

Anyways... a "keep playing/lost soul after death" mod sounds fun! (But I also have fun with mini-games where my character has to give up all gear, or whatever and maybe some people do not like that kind of thing.) My take on this possibility is that it would be good if the gear were scattered in some reasonable fashion, with likely candidates getting and using it, and perhaps quests to get it back (and, yes, lots of consumables spread out hither and yon... but except for nirnroot probably no quest for the consumables...)

Any kind of level-scaling.

Nothing in a realistic world should depend on your level unless it has [censored] good reason.
statement,,.

Nothing scales to your level, however things scale based on your level -- it's a dynamically generated world with fixed points of reference, in some ways like the original elder scrolls games, but of course done with a lot more detail. And, while I agree that perfect reality would be cool, I think we have to live with the fact that:

Spoiler

this is a computer game

» Sun May 20, 2012 1:02 am

More food options would be nice. This game needs coffee and hot chocolate, marshmalloiws, pizza and bananas!

» Sat May 19, 2012 10:36 am

Armor Penalties Overhaul
You should never be able to sneak without a penalty in heavy armor! You should never be able to cast spells as effectively in heavy armor as in robes. I'm really disappointed that Bethesda made this change.

Well, it seems they used a different approach this time, as every single robe has a positive effect on you magic. They don't punish you for wearing armor, but they encourage the player to actually wear a robe. I'm not sure if this is a good method yet, but it does make sense if you look at it like that. Of course there is enchanted armor, but still...

» Sun May 20, 2012 1:23 am

Small console mod I've been playing with: player.modav healrate -0.7

Gets rid of the automatic health regeneration you naturally seem to have. You then need to heal using magic/potions/food/rest which I find more immersive.

Doomguy

Careful - this also kills duration-based healing, like healing from food.

» Sun May 20, 2012 1:20 am

Every time you kill a dragon, don't you just want to scream, "There can be only one!"

(Not yet obscure reference from the 80's/90's.)

» Sat May 19, 2012 5:46 pm

Careful - this also kills duration-based healing, like healing from food.

Doh, it does indeed! I didn't notice it so far because most healing options are instant and work fine.

I'm planning to implement a low rate but long duration regeneration effect from eating (all) foods. That only makes sense if you don't have a massive natural regeration effect. It looks like I need to find another way to get rid of it...

Thanks for pointing it out!

» Sat May 19, 2012 9:24 am

Armor Penalties Overhaul
You should never be able to sneak without a penalty in heavy armor! You should never be able to cast spells as effectively in heavy armor as in robes. I'm really disappointed that Bethesda made this change.

I agree with the sneaking in heavy armor. I am in heavy armor now as a Battlemage type character and I sneak pretty good and it keep going up and up from just doing it. I should not be able to sneak like this covered in just shy of a ton of heavy metal.

I should however be able to cast spells just as effectively as when wearing, anything else. Why would I not be able to shoot fire bolts or zap out some lightning just as good just because I have heavier protection? Doesn't make any sense to me, and on top of that, it would kill off the Battlemage as a viable class. One of my two favorite classes BTW, and the one I'm playing on my firs playthrough. I like it the way they did it, and as someone else pointed out - if you are a magic user they encourage you to use robes because of nice bonuses, but you don't HAVE to wear them to be able to effectively use magic.

» Sat May 19, 2012 11:18 am

I agree with the sneaking in heavy armor. I am in heavy armor now as a Battlemage type character and I sneak pretty good and it keep going up and up from just doing it. I should not be able to sneak like this covered in just shy of a ton of heavy metal.

In that line, it seems strange that a heavy armor type character would even think of sneaking. If they did, the armor ought to clank. Does it?

» Sat May 19, 2012 11:15 pm

I agree with the sneaking in heavy armor. I am in heavy armor now as a Battlemage type character and I sneak pretty good and it keep going up and up from just doing it. I should not be able to sneak like this covered in just shy of a ton of heavy metal.

I should however be able to cast spells just as effectively as when wearing, anything else. Why would I not be able to shoot fire bolts or zap out some lightning just as good just because I have heavier protection? Doesn't make any sense to me, and on top of that, it would kill off the Battlemage as a viable class. One of my two favorite classes BTW, and the one I'm playing on my firs playthrough. I like it the way they did it, and as someone else pointed out - if you are a magic user they encourage you to use robes because of nice bonuses, but you don't HAVE to wear them to be able to effectively use magic.

I think the original excuse (back int he TES II days) was that heavy armor prohibited the flow of magicka. It wasn't impossible to cast while wearing heavy armor, but it was more difficult. Honestly, I don't see how making it harder (or more magicka intensive) to cast in heavy armor is that bad of a downside considering the amazing protection you have. A battlemage doesn't just use destro and heavy armor. I see a battlemage as someone who throws on a flame cloak, summons a huge axe, and wades into his enemies.

The problem with robes is that while it's nice to have more carrot on the robe side than stick on the armor side, the benefits of heavy armor seem to outweigh the benefits of robes (i.e. making spells cost close to 0 magicka means magicka regen is completely worthless)