J'derras (my main Khajiit character) was originally going to side with the Stormcloaks for the following reasons:

His hate of the Thalmor.
His favor for personal freedoms, such as the worship of Talos.
That Imperial ***** that send him to the block even though he wasn't on the list.
Grew up in Hammerfell, which has emnities with the Empire.
The Stormcloaks helped him escape Helgen.

But upon, reaching Windhelm and learning of Ulfric's racist tendencies, he is unsure of whether he should continue to back the Stormcloaks because:

He favors racial diversity.
He is concerned and troubled by Ulfric callousness towards non-Nords (according to some citizens of Windhelm)
He doesn't really know much about the Empire other than the fact they rolled on their back for the Thalmor.

J'derras needs to know more before he can choose a side. Would/does Ulfric change after the war in terms of racial outlook? Which outcome would probably mean more trouble for the Thalmor? Any other information that might sway his choice?

Since I'm roleplaying this character exactly to what he thinks and does, I also need this info. Any help will be appreciated.

I am playing a Khajiit now and he decided to stay out of the 'War of the Smoothskins'. One side tried to cut off his head and the other just hates him for no good reason. So no, my Khajiit is leaving the war alone.

Joining the Stormcloaks because you hate the Thalmor is not a good reason. Stormcloaks would not hold up to an attack by the Thalmor - the Empire is crippled, and yet it can match the Stormcloaks, and could only barely defeat the Thalmor. Moreover, the Imperials would have helped you escape Helgen as well, if you had given them the chance. The direction you run in when fireballs are raining down is more luck than judgement.

Ulfric puts Nords on a pedestal. Dark Elves are singled out, but the beast minorities - Khajiit and Argonians - get it pretty strongly as well. You can do a quest for one of the Argonians down in the docks that are motivated by racist wage distribution.

The Empire is a shell of what it was in Oblivion. The loss of Martin Septim left the Empire rudderless, and it was taken over after he died by Titus Mede I - the predecessor of the man who rules Skyrim at our time of play. Mede was a warlord, not a politician. The powerful, grand Imperial Empire that we knew of Oblivion has been shredded, and while Titus Mede II appears a marked improvement, he's not fixed this.

Ultimately, it's your character's call. Attacking the Stormcloaks could potentially lead to a) greater minority rights in Skyrim, a personal bonus, and allow the Empire to concentrate on establishing a defense against the Thalmor. Supporting the Stormcloaks, on the other hand, would perhaps mean the Empire would eventually wind up rebuilt, and thus a better machine - and would leave the Stormcloaks vulnerable to an attack by the Thalmor, leading to a greater Empire being reconstructed without the threat of the nationalists, but with the shadow of the Thalmor over their heads - because there's no doubt that whilst the Empire can just about hold off the Thalmor using diplomacy and their friends in Hammerfell, the Stormcloaks would get steamrollered.

Hmm... it seems the first point is a double-edged sword, as the Redguards were able to hold off the Thalmor without the Empire until the Second Treaty of Stros-M'kai was signed, so why not the Nords? But my character now realizes he's not out to get the Empire, but the Thalmor. Though he doesn't have any respect for the Empire because of their "surrender," because the Empire didn't win the war, they just ended it with diplomacy. The main reason for my character's emnity with the Thalmor was due to their agents murdering his parents.

A bigger point is the racial conflict. J'derras abhors racial discrimination, which is yet another reason to hate the elf-supremecist Thalmor.

M'aiq does not fear racist smoothskins. M'aiq is fast enough to outrun them all.

You don't have to do the civil war you know.

I played a Nord first and joined the Stormcloaks and went on with the game. I then played an Imperial and joined the Empire, and then went on with the game. I honestly don't believe any other character race I play will join the war. A Redguard might join the Stormcloaks as he would consider the Nords fight for freedom as something like his country did. An Orc may join the Empire as they have often been soldiers in their camp at one time or another. Plus it would seem more honorable.

If you character just has something against the Thalmor, then forget the war and just take it out on the Thalmor. There is more than one oppertunity to kill those yellow rats.

It's pretty simple. If you cripple the Empire further, the Alderi Dominion will faceroll the Stormcloaks later on. The Legion is only biding its time, waiting to regain its strength before pushing the Thalmor back out.

If they hadn't yielded, they would've been destroyed. It was a tactical loss. Most Stormcloaks have good in their hearts, but they're mis-guided and must be stopped.

-unsubstantiated claim states as fact despite a body of evidence to the contrary-

The White-Gold concordant was a constitutional surrender. Nothing more, nothing less. It was probably the biggest mistake Mede made.
The Aldmeri forces were beaten, they had been weaker than ever after the battle for the Imperial City. Yes, the Imperial forces were pretty f****d up, too, but if Mede had mobilized everything and sent emissaries to the Khajiit and Argonians, who suffered a great deal because of the Thalmor, they could've kicked the Altmer out of their provinces once and for all.
Even the Redguards managed to defend their homeland for 5 years (!!!).

Before the game was released I was Stormcloaks all the way.
After playing both sides and reading everything on the topic I couldn't really decide anymore, but tended towards Empire.

I don't have to, yet I want to pick a side for when I do. Also, Hammerfell was dropped from the Empire because they refused the terms of the White-Gold Concordant, they didn't choose their independence.

Talos also gives J'derras a reason to side with the Stormcloaks, because he favors the "Nine" Divines.

I do plan on seeing how both sides treat me as a factor, so I saved outside of Solitude to see how the Imperials treat me in comparison to the Stormcloaks. J'derras is currently unaffiliated, but has reason to join or go against either side. It all falls to who tips the scales.

On a side note, I think "smoothskin" should be saved for Fallout. I don't want to think about Ghouls when I'm thinking about Khajiit dealing with non-Khajiit.

The Empire Still belives in Talos.
There is a shrine to Talos in Fort Sungard.

As a Khajiit born in Cyrodiil, I am afraid the whole home thing doesn't apply to my character. I decided to side with the Stormcloaks as it was clear that the empire were under control of something else, and I wanted to test that somethings strength. I learned about the Thalmor, and showed a massive dislike for them. They too show racist tendencies (you know, with the whole we are superior and the man that rose to divinity isn't a divine) and tend to put things into war and slavery instead of just pushing them out of there land.

Oh, and I'm not headless thanks the Stormcloaks.

Serve the True High King.

That may be true, and yet they allow Thalmor Justicars to roam their lands and kill Talos worshippers. Did you play the DB-quest line? It really opened my eyes what is left of the "glorious Empire". It is corrupt and the Emperor is a fool.

The outlawing of Talos was one of the worst things they could've done because it's like they're denying their heritage. Talos is not just ANY GOD, he was THE FOUNDER of the Empire. He was the person who made it even possible to found an Empire. And most of all, he was not a coward like Mede. With that in mind, it makes me really sad when I think back to Oblivion where the Septim dynasty came to an end.

And before you get me wrong, I'm not a Stormcloak fanatic or an Ulfric-really devoted fan. I'm just saying that I don't know whether the Empire in it's current condition and it's leaders is worth fighting and dying for.

I also recall reading somewhere that if the dragonfires were to die OR the worship of the NINE divines to stop, the barriers between Oblivion and (whatever they call there planet) would fail. I'm not 100% on this though, and I'm still trying to find out where I think I read it (it was in game though.)

If Talos worship is ever completely wiped out the world will end for certain. There was enough power for him to send another shezarrine but he couldn't hold back the world end anymore like he had been, so he sent his champion instead.(You)


Traditionally though, the Khajiit would be pretty pissed off at the empire were they still a part of it. They go absolutely insane over their worship of Lorkhan(Talos). (The two moons in the sky are lorkhan's body)

Makes me curious as to what Elsweyr thought of the thalmor after the WGC.

Anyone who fights for the Emperor is a fool. Anyone who fights for the Empire is a hero.
The Empire needed time to Rebuild, Re-arm and plan. The banning of Talos was a cost of that time. But it was not enforced, Until those danmed Stormcloaks kicked up a fuss and the Empire and The Thalmor had to get involved. The current state of the Empire is the norm for it. It has seen darker days and still triumphed. It will do so again.

"Fight for the Flag, not the bearer"

So the worship of the Nine Devines is more important than we may think it is. But the gates to Oblivion won't open again as Martin Septim/Akatosh took care of that.
Source: [After the battle with Mehrunes Dagon] Martin narrates: "The Amulet is shattered. Dagon is defeated. With the Dragon's blood, and the Amulet of Kings, we have sealed the gates of Oblivion... forever." (http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Martin_Septim#Light_the_Dragonfires)

You're no better if you aren't going to present any evidence to the contrary.

I think pushing the Empire out of Skyrim allows them time to get together forces and sort stuff out in there own and other provinces. With the Nords not wanting to fight them outside of Skyrim, the Empire is free to turn what troops returned from Skyrim elsewhere, and possibly against the Thalmor.

-http://www.imperial-library.info/content/skyrim-concises-account-great-war-between-empire-and-aldmeri-dominion

So what's this big force just waiting to steamroll mankind you're talking about? If the thalmor thought they could destroy mankind they would've broken the concordat already and attacked.

Well they obviously have something big behind the scenes or the WGC would never have been made. I mean if there entire army was crushed, why would the one who did the crushing sign a peace treaty which doesn't benefit them?

I hear gold was the reason, and that the Emperor had been bought by the Thalmor, but they could have easily taken that gold if the Thalmor had no army. I personally believe the Thalmor have something else, something the Emperor and the Empire fears.

It's because Mede panicked. Throughout the past few years he's shown he cares about the IC and the IC alone. Losing the IC was a big wake up call to him. It's the only thing I've seen that actually motivated him to do something.

No attack force != no army. The thalmor still have defensive positions. They just can't continue to fight at the moment. Had the empire pressed they would've weakened themselves. Without the WGC they would likely be sending in attack forces to Valenwood already.

I'm not sure that you completely understood my post. I'm saying that if the Stormcloaks cripple the Empire even further, the divided powers will make it much easier for the Thalmor to dominate. If the Stormcloaks are put down, the Empire can continue to recover and eventually put forth an effort to force out the Thalmor. Various NPC dialogue discusses the topic, though I can't remember the names of the people I've heard it from.

So he's a crappy Emperor. Is he of the Septim bloodline, or did that end with Martin Septim? Maybe it takes dragonblood to rule Tamriel.

@Zexis0710 I think taking them out of Skyrim will allow them to gather forces elsewhere, yes they lost men, but they would still have men return from Skyrim, and now the Empire doesn't have to focus forces at Skyrim, they can focus them elsewhere, say to the land of the High Elves. Forgive me for not knowing names of places, I'm not yet familiar with regions other than Cyrodiil and Skyrim.

Martin Septim was the last of the Septims and he died when he transformed into the avatar of Akatosh to wipe the floor with Mehrunes Dagon. And yes, Mede is a crappy Emperor. Play the Dark Brotherhood quest line and you'll see what we're talking about.