First off, I've been reading the forums since they first announced the complete patch for Fallout New Vegas. I was hopeful that, post 1.2 patch, everything would be fixed. I'm severely disappointed to say the least. After such a long delay, upon delay, upon delay... and weeks after launch... I somehow expected more.

I think a big part of the disappointment is in the style this whole debacle is/was handled. We were told the patch to fix everything was coming... and yet it didn't come for weeks. All the while, we were basically not told anything specific about what we could expect to be fixed. I think it's safe to assume, that everyone hoped that all of the bugs they are experiencing were to be fixed. As it turns out, they all probably aren't fixed (yet...I still have hope that they can be fixed).

I'm personally not mad at the game developers and coders. I sympathize with their suffering and pain. The stress raining down from corporate above and the community below has to be nearly insurmountable. I'm sure they're working hours upon hours of overtime and being under payed for their important contribution. Stick with it guys and gals. You have an ally in me.

I'm flipping mad at the management. I think there was a point in development where they had three choices. The choices were probably a) hold the launch date and the DLC dates B) hold the launch date and slip the DLC dates or c) delay everything. I'm no expert, but with as many bugs as this game has/had there should have been no serious work started on the DLC until the game was essentially done. Oh wait, you probably decided to co-develop the DLC beside an unfinished game... what a stupid idea (I don't care if it's currently industry convention). You took man power off the game development so they could work on DLC content. The gamble could have worked out, and had it, you most certainly would have been a hero. However, the cost of this decision can't be measured.

Sure, holding the launch date resulted in the game launching in a great little window before the annual November powerhouse of a huge FPS. And I'm sure the DLC coming out before the lucrative Christmas holiday/break would have been a great plan. However, the plan crumbled a little. The game had a great launch. It really is a testament to the strength of the Fallout series. The problem is, a late beta game was released. There were way to many bugs. It has hurt my confidence in the series and I'm sure others as well. Imagine the lost sales and revenue because of people hearing about the negative press of all the bugs. Then imagine how many more sales could have been generated for positive press that the game certainly was capable of gaining but didn't. Remember, each game sale is also a potential point of sale for DLC. You have no one to blame for the negative press and lost sales but yourself.

When I read about the DLC Dead Money coming out in December I was excited. Then a realized what had really happened. As a manager, you decided to co-develop the DLC with the development of the game. That is really the only way DLC can be released so close to launch date. It is this decision that hurts so much. If the game was completed, this would have worked. However, development of the game was not completed in time for launch which resulted in so many bugs. There most certainly was a point where you could have pulled people off the DLC teams and worked full force on the ACTUAL GAME. This would have the negative effect of delaying the DLC. However, this likely could have resulted in a much more polished game and positive press. Even after the game launch and the discovery of so many bugs, you could have pulled the DLC teams off and really got down and hammered out the bugs. Instead, you allowed them to continue to work on DLC while slapping everyone who purchased the game square in the face. Many of us waited patiently for the 'complete' patch only to find out that there are STILL bugs which severely limit the enjoyment of the game.

As a manager, your job is to make the tough choices in light of the facts before you. I must say, there were so many opportunities to save face and, at the least, complete the game before the launch date. The series of decisions which lead to DLC launching beside a bugged game is inexcusable. I can't imagine the level of greed that drove these series of decisions.

Again, I sympathize with the actual game developers and coders. They have to deal with the incompetent management on a daily if not hourly bases. Keep up the good work and maybe management will realize its error and delay the 2nd DLC so that full attention can be given to fixing bugs. I'm not exactly optimistic though given the track record...

In light of the real nature of the game launch, the DLC, the bugs, the delayed patches, the deafening silence about the problems, the incomplete change logs, and the myriad examples of other poor managing decisions... I'm not buying the DLC and I urge everyone else not to as well.

Beth is notorious for being closed-mouthed. They don't tell us squat about what they are doing, until they are almost done.

Gotta also take in the corporate mentality. It isn't about putting out the best product they can, it is about putting out a product that will make them the most money.

Oblivion still has game breaking bugs that the company knows about, and hasn't bothered to fix.(one of them was a carryover from morrowind, and they didn't bother to fix that one either.) In fact, they have unequivocally stated that they will NOT fix them. PC users came up with their own fixes. Console users, once the bug is encountered, have no recourse, but to start a new game.

Early DLC being made with the game is an effort to circumvent GameStop and other retailers, who take a large chunk of each game sale. With games now requiring significantly more time and money to make than they did even 10 years ago due to rising graphical standards, I can understand their position: the cost of games hasn't risen significantly for years because the cost is what people are generally willing to pay for a game.

No one patch is going to fix EVERYTHING in a game this complicated, and it's a bit silly to think that it would.

I can see how that could have been the case, and in terms of scripting errors/quest bugs etc. they could have fixed that before release, however the severe problems lie within the core of the game itself and will be present in every game that uses the software(Gamebryo or Havoc, maybe a combo of the 2).

The best we can hope for is that Skyrim's(and eventually Fallout 5) engine will be a sophisticated piece of software.

Its the age of the PS3 the Xbox 360 and awsome computers of course these will get better but still the fact that a game with so many bugs can be given the thumbs up to be put on the market is just incompatence of the person who decided to send out a game that will freeze three times in two hours.Of course this type of game is not easy to make and a lot goes in to it and its only expected that some bugs will go unchecked because of the massive amount of data,but its not the designers fault,its the people who sent out a game that couldnt be fully combed of bugs.

Don't you think that we should wait for Fallout 4 to come out first? :poke:

Anyway, yeah, there have been some pretty big bugs in every Bethesda game I've ever played, and they don't all get fixed. I like to think about like this; If Bethesda/Obsidian spent all their time and effort fixing/repairing bugs either due to an aging engine or poor design, or to just the sheer size of games of these magnitudes, then nothing else would ever get done. Comparing Morrowind/Oblivion/Fallout to games other developers games isn't really helpful to the situation and won't get these bugs fixed any quicker.

Edit: spelling

I'm not buying that the rush job on the game and DLC was a product of game resellers. The way you prevent a game from being resold is to offer substantive, creative, engaging content that only the first buyer can access. Other games have offered a redemption code for extra content. (I'm talking real extra content... like extra missions and substantive new levels.)

Rushing out a game full of bugs and trying to rush out DLC to customers does not prevent one from seeking to resell the game if they are unhappy with it. What will increase the number of people seeking to resell the game is a poor game experience. It could be a short, unimaginative FPS. Or it could be a buggy RPG.


I know it is hard with a game this size and complexity to find every bug and get them all fixed before launch. But is it so wrong to expect a full development team on bug hunt and kill? I didn't really expect one patch would solve everything... but I do admit that the absence of hearing anything about what bugs were to be fixed certainly gave a false sense of security that the bugs I've experienced or could possibly experience would be fixed.

My biggest point of contention is with the way it was managed. If the full team was on full bug control we'd probably be up to patch number four and we'd all be begging for DLC rather than for bug fixes. To that end, we'd all be having a wonderful game experience right now and the press would have rewarded the game with many more positive reviews and accolades. Instead the customers aren't happy, the investors probably aren't happy with the lost sales, the game developers/coders probably aren't happy with the stress of all this landing squarely on their shoulders.... a series of bad decisions hurt everyone.

What I'm most worried that will happen, is that the managers who made these poor decisions, will at the end of the day look at the numbers and say 'We made the right choices.' They'll stand there and try and convince everyone that they were the reason the game was so successful. To the contrary, with better management, the game probably could have been VASTLY more successful.