I want to know if you get a bounty for casting a frenzy spell on someone non-hostile. I ask because J'derras can't stand to see Thalmor in the city of Markarth and wants to "get rid of them" without getting a bounty.

If someone sees you and you do nothing more than that, it'll be like 40 gold at most. Surely you can afford that. BTW I did the Slow Time shout and assassinated them, sheathed my weapon and waited for the guards. Fine? 40 gold.

Yes it's very hard to cast a Frenzy spell on someone without getting a bounty. The best way to do it is to get the pickpocketing perk that lets you put poisons in people's pockets, then put the appropriate level of Frenzy poison on them and they'll go berserk without anyone knowing you had anything to do with it

If you have line of sight to someone and they don't move much, it is super easy to snipe with frenzy. Spells travel in a straight line, not in an arc like arrows AND frenzy is AOE. You can even cast invisibility right after casting it for an even lower chance of getting caught.

The reverse pickpocket perk rocks for this reason. I let the guards and good townspeople kill the Thalmor and the Silver Bloods for me. Just drop a frenzy + poison damage potion into their inventory and stand back.

What about the illusion perk that allows silent casting of spells from all magic?

i have silent casting but it seems as soon as i hit someone with it i still get the bounty, could be wrong tho havent done much with illusion.

Are you talking about the Thalmor in Understone Keep? Isn't he essential? His bodyguards are not, but he himself is essential

Maybe a dumb question but does casting the spell to upgrade mineral ores in public give a bounty? I mean you dont have to use it in public but if you do, I havent tried as I dont keep much gold on me. But say I did use the spell to make gold from silver could i pay the bounty with the gold? Probably not since its not septims but it is worth septims, so I guess thats the real question I have. BUT if my sneak were high enough would that work still?

no i murdered him even while he was offering a quest, wasnt essential

I accepted his quest and then killed him. I dont like the thalmorz. It failed me the quest so i killed his pals too.

The only things that get you a bounty are criminal offences.

I like to stir up Thalmor by casting familiars between them, and stuff like that. Unless it's an 'offensive' spell, which harms them or causes harm, it won't attract a bounty. If you want to try it, go find some chickens, but don't take a follower, and cast on the chickens...

If you really want to have a laugh, and have a spare few septims, wait until Thalmor walk past chickens in some of the villages, then cast frenzy onto the chooks....sure, it's dead chickens, but worth a good laugh, and with any luck one of the Thalmor will hit or spell a guard and then it's on for young and old.

The other way to start a fight with them, foolproof with no bounty attached, is to admit you worship Talos, or simply don't answer if they put the question to you...if you want a fight, you will have one, otherwise just leg it towards some guards, they'll jump in on your side.

I can transmute the chickens?

Just because they can't hear you cast the spell doesn't mean they won't see you cast it.

what if your sneaking and undetected?

dont use the aoe frenzy only the projectile one and always stay hidden with silent casting = no bounty and the target goes attacking the first thing he can see.

Hmm... all generally good advice. J'derras doesn't know how to pickpocket, but he does have invisibility potions. On a side note, J'derras tried the "I worship Talos" bit on the Markarth Thalmor, but the option doesn't show up when I talk to them. Tsk, tsk. I'll have to risk getting a bounty then. I'll try dual-casting fury on one of the Thalmor's followers instead of the leader after drinking an Illusion potion, then drinking an invisibility potion after I cast the spell.