Well, this is due to Robert's Male legs not supporting this "extreme" kind of bending perfectly. The calf is clipping into the thigh and vice versa, the knee cap is looking yet worse I think. It's happening for the other leg as well, but due to the angle it's not that visible here. This new anatomy will work with regular Robert's Male upperbody and lowerbody items, no equipment swapping through my scripts necessary anymore. Thus I'm not intending to mess around with those body meshes.
Depending on the actual pose it won't be that noticeable once textured anyways.

P.S.: I edited in a few pics of the flexibility of the new feet into the last post.

Could you post more screenshots of these feet ? I'd like to see them in normal position (untextured or wireframe too).

Your wish is my command, here you go:

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/7153/newanatomyfeet1.jpg
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3985/newanatomyfeet2.jpg
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5463/newanatomyfeet3.jpg (yay for nonsense titles!)
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/8675/newanatomyfeet4.jpg (my, those claws are hilariously long... might need some pedicure badly?)

The clue is, neither legs nor upperbody will require any clothing conversions anymore. Those are still regular Robert's Male V5 meshes, just the different skeletal structure deforms them a little. But this effect will happen to any and all meshes you equip there automatically... if I can keep it that way, won't that be a massive improvement?

P.S.: This rigging of the new tail is driving me crazy... it just doesn't want to bend the way I want it to... might need to start over again...

awesome doesn't quite cover that

omgomgomgomg, i cant wait til u release this, its gona be so good

and i think the claws are just right, they look dangerious. i hope u get the tail rigged properly

Looks great. xD

At least "you" like it... might make up for "myself" not being too satisfied with the looks in those pics...
Well, I guess I should stop being that much of a perfectionist at heart... start actually being "satisfied" with a few things and leave them as they are... this or I will likely never "finish" anything. :shakehead:

Well, honestly this whole project isn't meant to ever be "finished" in the literal sense. My dreams and ideas of and for Drake and his race in Oblivion aren't going to stop either anyways.
But of course I know it's important to at least get things "finished up" for release some time soon... even though that's not the same as being finished.
It's a bunch of ongoing releases, improvements, add-ons, whatever I come up with, all playable and "complete" on their own... "finished" on the other side would mean a stop, nothing new to come anymore... and especially for this project that's unlikely to ever happen.
Uh, I hope I made sense... should stop getting that talkative all the time. In real-life I'm talking less than 5 sentences per day on average, especially to people I don't know... why then can't I stop talking when online? :facepalm:

Back on topic, I might need to alter a few details of these feet again though. I'm not really satisfied with their current anatomy... I mean, it's looking close, quite... adequate, yes... just not... well... just not enough to satisfy me I guess. This hind claw is not yet working the way I intended it, the middle section of the feet is too broad, not in-line with the calves enough, and I think the border between the toes and the claws should be a bit more noticeable... after all they're "sticking out" of them, not gradually hardening tips of them. Maybe I'll even go the long route and add yet more bones for individual toes. The way they're bending "outwards" when grabbing at the moment (because they're only rotating around this one joint I depicted while still being spread outwards) just doesn't look right. Claws should bend inwards when doing that, I remember it from the canaries we had a while ago (yeah, I know, bird feet are not necessarily the same, but look at all those reptiles, dinosaurs in movies or even dragon depictions themselves, they all move inwards when grabbing).

On the bright side my brother's getting more and more convinced he has found exactly the right new computer for me... well, my own ideas stopped being of any concern a few months ago already and I didn't really get around to concentrate on this either... and I'm about to just give in for mental peace's sake... it's not really what I imagined, but it will be 10 times better than my old system, twice as much as I'll ever need, and the price is okay... so, why not? At least I'll be able to continue modding full-scale again then, finally. My scripting approach needs some serious fixing badly, I know. This one's holding back a beta release for way too long now already.

Oh well, we'll see about that... hopefully soon, though... :unsure:

...I want to quit with only "promising" it will end soon all the time...

At least once you get a new PC you will know that you will be able to play Oblivion at a decent frame rate. I remember you posted way back about in game being very low frame rate.

IMHO feet are too slim and agile, could you make them bigger and more muscular.

What about something like that (I know, its diffrent leg anathomy but looks cool):
http://anthrosaur.deviantart.com/art/Lizardfolk-Champion-7551381?q=gallery%3Aanthrosaur%2F61363&qo=46
or that
http://anthrosaur.deviantart.com/art/Fincrest-Lizardfolk-7497111?q=gallery%3Aanthrosaur%2F61363&qo=49

Anyway good job :thumbsup:

I think those feet are too big, but just imo.

Drake, sorry for getting back to you so late, but the new skeleton worked on fixing the claw tips on the wings. I guess you know this by now... lol.

I've been grossly involved with my WIP mod that I forgot about the problem until I was review my old posts.

Don't worry, lonewolf_kai. You're right, it was reported fixing the bug already, but thanks for another confirmation. 1 user so far experiences crashes when using these new skeletons, and only when using them. Any previous versions seem to work crash-free. It's weird that things always work for many but never for all in this freaky game we all love so much.

lordsoulstrike, if 1-digit FPS on the average is "very low" for you, then you're right, it was very slow... strangely I myself did never realize this, just this little number in the corner of my screen told me something's not right.
But as I should have told already this was only due to me forgetting about having throttled down my graphics card by accident. It was never really running on full capacity since some time after playing for the first time... silly me...

As for those feet, well, actually the first one's are even a little smaller than mine, the second one's are a good bit larger but he's also much more muscular than your typical Robert's Male mesh.
What both of them have in common though is one thing I was more or less settling on already, the actual feet (not the spread toes) are always about as wide as the calves.
And the leg anatomy is in no way different. This type of digitigrade legs is exactly what I'm aiming at.

While I myself was aiming towards a more agile anatomy this time, as it is better fitting to Drake's, Kaira's and in general all my dragons' anatomy, again attempting a blend between certain references (you know I'm not satisfied with only recreating 1):
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2018201/,
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2018190/,
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1180683/,
http://twilightsaint.deviantart.com/art/Tutorial-DRAGON-FEET-144306360,
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7079/newfeetreferencekp7.jpg (still quite fitting),
edit: look what I just found:
http://winterblueart.deviantart.com/art/As-in-my-dream-II-74816701 (just 1 toe missing)
always taking something from each to flesh out the mental image in my mind,
the shape I'm currently at has way too slim toes anyways. I want them to be quite agile, yes, but they should also be quite strong nevertheless.

I just hope I will at least succeed with the feet soon... my new tail attempt was a total mess so far... :facepalm:

those pictures seem pretty interesting.......

what are you going to mode off the muscular one? because i really like the way it joins the tail to the body in that picture

I was playing around with textures,
Here is my result:
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/6564/screenshot145q.jpg

What do you think about it ?

are they the dragon feet?

in fallout?

omg fearil, thats awsome

These are old, orginal dragon feet.
I have converted this race to Fallout.

i knew you did the head and body texture, but i had no idea about the feet

Nice coincidence. This is exactly the thing I found most interesting in this pic. This and the overall proportions of the limbs and the pose.


I really like what I'm seeing. You're doing a great job with those Fallout conversions, Fearil!
This kind of pants is so made for those feet... guess that's why I chose such as well in my Guardian Equipment.
Drake personally won't ever use a rifle though (too violent and killing is a no-no), but I could very well imagine some of those dragons in camouflage combat attire patrolling the wastelands while a futuristic version of a Draconic Frigate airship hovers some hundred feet over the landscape... oh, boy, now I'll have some interesting dreams with those images in my mind when going to bed...

hey drake, you mentioned the pose of the muscular one, i thought that looked pretty good as well, but as you are making all of this yourself, would it be possible to mabe have that pose as the idol?
or would that make all of the other movements wierd?

I doubt it will make any trouble using this pose as your idle. It's just not 100% matching anatomy, so a little artistic freedom here and there will be inevitable to make it fitting.

But you're right in suggesting this. When I like this pose myself that much and am anyways going to (re)create all animations so they fit the new anatomy and my imagination, why not starting by making this the idle and then design the walk accordingly so it fits?

I just have to finish that damn tail first... oh, and the rest of the anatomy not yet finished of course. It wouldn't make sense to design animations or poses without having the anatomy finished first, when you have to start over every time you alter the skeleton anyways.

so whats wrong with the tail? not bending right or something?

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/8269/badtailattempt.jpg.

That's definitely not bending like intended, I must've messed up the rigging somewhere, and I'm neither satisfied with the overall look of this sorry attempt...
...my first tail attempt was looking way better than this! :banghead:

That tail looks funny :laugh:
By the way why are you going to change it ?
Tail from pre-beta looks good already.

It was somewhat like sitting on an open barrel, like a plumbing tool propped over your behind. The buttocks were completely disappearing beneath this mass of flesh. And I wanted to alter the bone structure underneath, the point it connects to the spine (or currently doesn't) and the pose it's in for rigging and modeling. It's really hard to model a mesh around an already arbitrary bent tail and then make sure it will still bend correctly itself.
Oh, and I wanted to make it longer and more agile and flexible by adding in further bones, like a merge between the tails from the "slim, athletic" and the "muscular" references.

That tail looks like it has the impossible case of negative weights, as it's bending in the opposite direction to the adjacent joints - so I don't think it's just a simple weight problem.

Since you're using Blender, I don't know what the equivalent tool is called, but MAX has the Flex plugin that does something like that in order to bulge muscles either side of a flexing joint. It could be that you have that effect going (and over-active!)

i quite liked the thicker tail, in the muscular picture, the tail was thick but not abnormally so, it looked like it hung over the rear as opposed to jutting out of it

I've read through most of this thread and I do like what you guys are doing. It looks good.

However, the feet look backwards. The little 'toe' adrift on the ankle looks off and potentially hazardous if one had a toe like that. Being on the inside ankle area would make more anatomical sense and would look more of what some would expect a dragon to have.

The textures and colors are very nice so far. The albino one had me interested, but it seems lacking in albinism. It seems more of a white dragon than an albino. Most albino reptiles are a cream/yellow/light orange in color, so adjusting those values shouldn't be so bad. And possibly the claws/prongs on tail/claws could go a cream color to match with the lack of pigmentation for it's scales. And I do love the wings a lot. Do you think adding a slight veiny texture to the wings? Currently, the seem flat, but appealing.

This isn't really a request on my behalf, but some constructive criticism to make your dragons look the part. Good work, Drake. I'm really impressed.