Dual Wield Parry & Counterattack : V

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:28 pm

Hi,
this is more a question to bethesda developers than to the fans of TES games. Said so here it is.

I've been playing Skyrim for a while now with a friend of mine, and I personally love to have two swords in may hands ( more ways to kill, muahahahah !!! :devil:

), but there is something disappointing of it.

When I'm fighting you've setted the game so that I can't parry or counterattack with a dual wield ( sword+sword, swod+mace ) :blink:

, and for me it looks a bit wierd because in many movie and games, p.e. GoW for PS2, the character can parry, & if with a good timing even counterattack immediatly the opponent. Ok, maybe the counterattak of GoW is to much, but entering parry at a good time should be added to at least reduce damage.

Other reason for why this should be added is that I've put a shield in the quick action menu and if I'm in the middle of a combat, I can put away the mace & pull out the shield fast as a thought. Onestly that is really strange, because I don't think that the hero would say: " Hey mate, wait that I put away my mace in the backpack and put on my shield, and after the parry, take out the mace again to cick you where the sun doesn't shine ". :banana:

I think that, maybe with a patch, an expansion or thees "DLC" I heard about for games, you should add this feature, maybe as a one-handed high level perk, but you should add it.

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:58 am

My Character wears heavy armor so no need for a Shield, and the not mage enemys aren't making any damage to me. ^^

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:05 pm

Also mine is heavyarmored, most not mage die before they could think to first strike, as for mages, they don't run fast enough ( hehehe ). Despite being a war machine, still would like that feature. I think that a combat class with 100pts in single handed should now how to use his sword to deflect enemy's attack.
Also think about this: When I don't have a shield and use only a one-handed swod or a two-handed sword I know how to parry, but with two swords I'm unable to do so ??
In my opinion, even the court juggler could figure out how to if he knows to defend him self with one and/or two handed swords, axes, staffs, etc. .

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:56 pm

Also think about this: When I don't have a shield and use only a one-handed swod or a two-handed sword I know how to parry, but with two swords I'm unable to do so ??

If you look from a realistic point of view, that would be kind of impossible to fight with two massive iron or steel swords

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:42 am

In real life dual wielding is the most preferred way of fighting for skilled swordfighters since the off-hand weapon (usually a dagger) is the *parry* weapon. This provides the best parry and counter attack options since a weapon doesn't cover your view or slow you down as much as a shield does and there's more than one way to use it. If fighting against someone wielding a heavy weapon like an axe or a two-hander you can always try to parry with both weapons at the same time (although evading would be a more effective and less dangerous option). I can understand that axes would be left out of the pool (there's hardly any way to pary with one axe much less with two), but why swords and daggers? Who knows...

» Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:21 pm

As I thoguh Ainar, just you said it better ^^.
I'ld also like to add a little controls & combat style arguement that I talked about with someone as an off-topic in moddb forums:

Naqser:
[...] Morrowind was the first game in the series I played, I've only read about the others.[...] Then I played all the others. While I feel the games are good, they certainly could take two steps back to Morrowind.

Me:
[...] Hope that you don't referr to the morrowind combat style: in the time to kill one foe in morrowind I can clear a dungeon in the older ones.[...]

Naqser:
[...] I actually liked Morrowind's combat style, I felt like I was progressing when I first couldn't take on some enemies, but a few hours later mashed their heads in, also partially thanks to the pre-leveled areas. [...]

Me:
I'm an oblivion & skyrim player, for that I really don't like the morrowind fighting system because it destroys mouse buttons to kill an enemy & it doesn't really care how you move in battle and that you can freely defend by pulling up your shield. [...]
For a new game I agree with you { we talked about variety of creatures, skills, enchantemets & magic you could use/create etc. } , only combat style should remain maybe as in skyrim, but even that should be enhanced, p.e. when you use the shout that stuns the enemy, why doesn't the character simply kill him with one hit ( heart , head, etc. ), it would be more "realystic" to use such a precious chance.
And also, most important & I'ld like to ask Bethesda, put the ability to block when in dual wield. Many times you can see in movies or games ( p.e. GoW ) that the character blocks an enmy attack by crossing swords with the right timing. { This is when I created this topic on Bethesda forums }

Naqser:
[...] I’ve played, and play, all Elder Scrolls on the Xboxes, available that is.
So I wouldn't know anything about destroying the mouse. From what I remember though, it does matter how you move. If you move one way then it'll attack in a certain way, and so on. I think you could even thrust with axes and blunt weapons, if you moved forward and while doing that held the attack button. [...]
The "stun then kill" thing is something I don't really like, makes it too easy. Anything that is easy is allready a one hit kill and anything that isn't shouldn't be through means of stunning, freezing or pushing, then again, the same rules should apply for the player as well as it allready does.
I think one of the reasons you can't block while dual wielding is because the shield button is also an attack button when dual wielding. Considering it's also for console it'd be strange to block while dual wielding. Not that I don't support the idea, but it'd be awkward, and really no idea in using shields since the damage output is double and the blocking is roughly half.
I know it won't be made, would still like it though.

Me:
Whell, maybe the stun shout example is a bit poor, but think of this: If you were fighting for your life against a thiev or an assassin, wouldnt you do whatever it takes to save your self, and if needed kill your foe ? For that reason it's a bit strange that with a stunning move you can't use for your best.
Maybe it could look a bit easyway, but it almost happend to me when I fought against a Bandit-Chief. That guy killed me while I still had at least 40% of life and was going to heal soon, after dealing him some more damage.
Due to key pressing, on a keyboard they could do a key to block, a key for left hand & a key for right hand, shure it would be easy.
Although there is the case of playing on consoles, and I know controllers don't have 10.000 keys, so maybe they could have set it that while keeping pressed the run( o stamina ) key and the left & right hand buttons it would pary. Logically it would be right for at least two reasons:
1) I doubt you'll run while performing an attack, since thay already considered that in the heavy dual-wield attack.
2) It takes an extra to stop an attack, so to consume a bit of stamina would be right.

( moddb topic: http://www.moddb.com/forum/thread/rebirth-of-the-elder-scrolls-arena-or-daggerfall/ )